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What's All This About The OGL Going Away?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8836032" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>Not really. It just doesn't express the animus you're projecting on to it, not even as subtext. It's also an extremely long time "after the fact" so likely to be the product of retcon to some extent. I have zero doubt that if 4E was broadly more well-regarded, she would have something a bit different to say.</p><p></p><p>I love how people talk about "being diplomatic" then jump immediately to grandiose claims that that other people have to be making accusations of "lying". Come off it. She's by your own token, "being diplomatic" in pretty much exactly the same sense. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite7" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue :p" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":p" /></p><p></p><p>I'm saying that <em>at the very least</em>, they were contingency-planning Pathfinder in case there was an opportunity or necessity, and nothing in her statement contradicts that in any way that matters. They're not idiots, they read the writing on the wall, and her statement her is basically a reasonable "retcon" of the facts which paints Paizo in the most favourable possible light (no denying it does that). That's not lying in a serious way, it's just a thing people, especially serious business people (which Lisa undeniably is), absolutely do. Indeed not doing it in a public statement like that would be bizarre and a little unprofessional.</p><p></p><p>The cold fact is, WotC had essentially gone from valued allies to ceasing all diplomatic relations with Paizo by stripping them of the Dragon/Dungeon licences, which Paizo had run extremely well, and delaying the licence was essentially moving massed tank divisions to Paizo's border! There was over a year between those events, notice. I am quite sure that when they lost those licences, and given WotC had gone silent about the OGL (I think if you go back to that period on these boards you can find discussion of that very fact) re: 4E, that was when they must have at least started planning in a fairly serious way.</p><p></p><p>As for inevitable, I think it was inevitable <em>given the delayed licence</em>, which made it obvious it was hostile, and inevitable given the GSL. I don't think the rules had much to do with it, not compared with WotC's obviously hostility to and contempt for 3PPs, which again, Paizo got to know about over a year before the licence arrived. Put it this way - if 4E had been virtually identical to what Pathfinder was, but WotC had still been as hostile to 3PPs in general and Paizo specifically, and had still been delaying the licence then pushing the GSL, I have no doubt Paizo would have still created Pathfinder. I don't think the rules really mattered, that seems illogical and very much a retcon as I said.</p><p></p><p>Re: the implied idea that they'd have "preferred to just focus on crafting adventures", I think that's laughable and a little insulting to the people at Paizo, like they saying they have no ambition. They were a pretty aggressive company already (not in a bad way). They weren't some bunch of carpenters dedicated to turning out traditionally-made cabinets. They were and are a media company, full of people with ambitions, who wanted to succeed, and who a saw a massive opportunity created by the absolute <strong>multi-layered idiocy</strong> of WotC re: 4E. I mean, let's not go into that, but WotC just really put a huge effort into scoring multiple own goals before the launch of 4E. We do seem to be seeing hints of the same behaviour with 1D&D, but I think they'll manage it better this time.</p><p></p><p>Interesting!</p><p></p><p>I'll have to keep an eye on them, as "influenced by old-school D&D and 4E" sounds like a pretty ideal combination to me (though also 5E could be described that way to some extent).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8836032, member: 18"] Not really. It just doesn't express the animus you're projecting on to it, not even as subtext. It's also an extremely long time "after the fact" so likely to be the product of retcon to some extent. I have zero doubt that if 4E was broadly more well-regarded, she would have something a bit different to say. I love how people talk about "being diplomatic" then jump immediately to grandiose claims that that other people have to be making accusations of "lying". Come off it. She's by your own token, "being diplomatic" in pretty much exactly the same sense. :p I'm saying that [I]at the very least[/I], they were contingency-planning Pathfinder in case there was an opportunity or necessity, and nothing in her statement contradicts that in any way that matters. They're not idiots, they read the writing on the wall, and her statement her is basically a reasonable "retcon" of the facts which paints Paizo in the most favourable possible light (no denying it does that). That's not lying in a serious way, it's just a thing people, especially serious business people (which Lisa undeniably is), absolutely do. Indeed not doing it in a public statement like that would be bizarre and a little unprofessional. The cold fact is, WotC had essentially gone from valued allies to ceasing all diplomatic relations with Paizo by stripping them of the Dragon/Dungeon licences, which Paizo had run extremely well, and delaying the licence was essentially moving massed tank divisions to Paizo's border! There was over a year between those events, notice. I am quite sure that when they lost those licences, and given WotC had gone silent about the OGL (I think if you go back to that period on these boards you can find discussion of that very fact) re: 4E, that was when they must have at least started planning in a fairly serious way. As for inevitable, I think it was inevitable [I]given the delayed licence[/I], which made it obvious it was hostile, and inevitable given the GSL. I don't think the rules had much to do with it, not compared with WotC's obviously hostility to and contempt for 3PPs, which again, Paizo got to know about over a year before the licence arrived. Put it this way - if 4E had been virtually identical to what Pathfinder was, but WotC had still been as hostile to 3PPs in general and Paizo specifically, and had still been delaying the licence then pushing the GSL, I have no doubt Paizo would have still created Pathfinder. I don't think the rules really mattered, that seems illogical and very much a retcon as I said. Re: the implied idea that they'd have "preferred to just focus on crafting adventures", I think that's laughable and a little insulting to the people at Paizo, like they saying they have no ambition. They were a pretty aggressive company already (not in a bad way). They weren't some bunch of carpenters dedicated to turning out traditionally-made cabinets. They were and are a media company, full of people with ambitions, who wanted to succeed, and who a saw a massive opportunity created by the absolute [B]multi-layered idiocy[/B] of WotC re: 4E. I mean, let's not go into that, but WotC just really put a huge effort into scoring multiple own goals before the launch of 4E. We do seem to be seeing hints of the same behaviour with 1D&D, but I think they'll manage it better this time. Interesting! I'll have to keep an eye on them, as "influenced by old-school D&D and 4E" sounds like a pretty ideal combination to me (though also 5E could be described that way to some extent). [/QUOTE]
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