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<blockquote data-quote="Kraydak" data-source="post: 4258775" data-attributes="member: 12306">In that vein, there are also a bunch of higher level upgrades that barely (or not at all) deserve the name.&nbsp; As noted previously, the fighter's Steel Serpent Strike (enc 1) is strictly better than Dance of Steel (enc 3).&nbsp; Stinking Cloud (wiz daily 5) compares well to Cloudkill (wiz daily 19).&nbsp; Same damage, Cloudkill is bigger (burst 5 vs 2) but you can move Stinking Cloud faster (6 squares vs 3).On a different note, if they wanted to avoid &quot;Dodge&quot; type inferior choices, they did it really, really poorly.&nbsp; Take the peculiar case of Careful Attack (no stat to damage, +2 to hit) vs Twin Strike (no stat to damage, 2 attacks), both ranger at-wills.&nbsp; At first glance, you would expect them to be equal if you need a 19 or a 21 to hit, Careful Attack better if you need a 20 exactly and Twin Strike better at all other times.&nbsp; We already clearly have a lemon of an ability on our hands.But it gets wierder, in a large part due to the removal of crit confirmation rolls.&nbsp; If, say, you need a 19 to hit then you expect the same number of hits from both skills, but half of Twin Strike's hits will be crits while only a quarter of Careful Attack's will be.&nbsp; On the other hand, Twin Strike will occasionally (1/100 rounds) get a double hit, only one which will be able to take advantage of 1/round damage (such as Hunter's Quarry).What does it all mean?&nbsp; If you need 19s to hit, Twin Strike is substantially better than Careful Attack (10% better with no feats/magic gear, 30% in the epic tier with a vicious +6 longbow, weapon focus, devastating critical, lethal hunter).&nbsp; It gets worse though.&nbsp; If you need a 20 exactly, assuming you have a level appropriate, +six siders on crit magic bow, and take weapon focus, devastating crit and lethal hunter then by the time you get a +2 weapon Twin Attacks is better!If you need a 21 to hit, then Careful Attack beats Twin Attacks due to crits, if you need a 22 to hit, they are roughly even (depends on gear/feats) and at 23+, Twin Attacks dominates.So:A) Careful Attack is an awful choice.&nbsp; Never take it.&nbsp; Never let a friend take it.&nbsp; It makes 3e's Dodge look good.B) The removal of crit confirmation rolls means you have to be *very* careful comparing different abilities if you need something near a 20 to hit.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kraydak, post: 4258775, member: 12306"] In that vein, there are also a bunch of higher level upgrades that barely (or not at all) deserve the name. As noted previously, the fighter's Steel Serpent Strike (enc 1) is strictly better than Dance of Steel (enc 3). Stinking Cloud (wiz daily 5) compares well to Cloudkill (wiz daily 19). Same damage, Cloudkill is bigger (burst 5 vs 2) but you can move Stinking Cloud faster (6 squares vs 3). On a different note, if they wanted to avoid "Dodge" type inferior choices, they did it really, really poorly. Take the peculiar case of Careful Attack (no stat to damage, +2 to hit) vs Twin Strike (no stat to damage, 2 attacks), both ranger at-wills. At first glance, you would expect them to be equal if you need a 19 or a 21 to hit, Careful Attack better if you need a 20 exactly and Twin Strike better at all other times. We already clearly have a lemon of an ability on our hands. But it gets wierder, in a large part due to the removal of crit confirmation rolls. If, say, you need a 19 to hit then you expect the same number of hits from both skills, but half of Twin Strike's hits will be crits while only a quarter of Careful Attack's will be. On the other hand, Twin Strike will occasionally (1/100 rounds) get a double hit, only one which will be able to take advantage of 1/round damage (such as Hunter's Quarry). What does it all mean? If you need 19s to hit, Twin Strike is substantially better than Careful Attack (10% better with no feats/magic gear, 30% in the epic tier with a vicious +6 longbow, weapon focus, devastating critical, lethal hunter). It gets worse though. If you need a 20 exactly, assuming you have a level appropriate, +six siders on crit magic bow, and take weapon focus, devastating crit and lethal hunter then by the time you get a +2 weapon Twin Attacks is better! If you need a 21 to hit, then Careful Attack beats Twin Attacks due to crits, if you need a 22 to hit, they are roughly even (depends on gear/feats) and at 23+, Twin Attacks dominates. So: A) Careful Attack is an awful choice. Never take it. Never let a friend take it. It makes 3e's Dodge look good. B) The removal of crit confirmation rolls means you have to be *very* careful comparing different abilities if you need something near a 20 to hit. [/QUOTE]

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