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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NotActuallyTim" data-source="post: 6858268" data-attributes="member: 6804638">It's possible to disagree with somebody without taking somebody elses side.Actually comparing what we both originally said, this is in disagreement to what you said about it in comparison to Rage and Bladesong. While it's certainly more effective against a single enemy, it's far better than say, Sneak Attack for groups. As a pure damage boost, DS works reasonably well in almost any situation, which is part of it's attractiveness to optimizing players.DS damage would be including the attack damage from the attacks, because there is no way to deliver a DS without an attack. The actual damage a Paladin can do is more like 156.5 (76 Radiant from smites, 2*7 from dueling flat, 35 from a maxed Dexterity/Strength and 4.5*7 from a 1d8 weapon-assuming no crits and that GWF doesn't reroll DS dice). That's about at least 3.5 centaurs, which is nontrivial in a situation where they would retreat.Given that Action Economy is at a premium in a shorter day, casting spells may simply be entirely unfeasible with their Action costs. Furthermore, it's unlikely a Paladin would actually need or even be capable of using all their Slots. There's a party with them, after all, who are also contributing to the damage count.It's unlikely that the Paladin could use their slots that quickly in the first combat. They can only spend so many slots on DS per round anyways, and their party members are quite likely to deal damage themselves. To put this in perspective, 4 pallies would have a combined DS only value of 626 points. Cutting the total HP value of the original fight down to account for fleeing enemies, the party needs to do 638 points of damage total in these scenarios combined. They can make up the 12 missing points with some inefficient healing or something, I'm sure.It's far more likely that the 'melee only' aspect of DS would hurt them far more than spending slots DS would. Which a better argument than 'DS doesn't do enough for its' slot cost.' Simply put, I disagree with your entire analysis of what DS's strengths and weaknesses are, and what does or does not make it balanced or unbalanced. It's clearly a worthwhile-or even necessary-feature for Paladins in combats, based on the HP values you've presented here.</blockquote>

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