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<blockquote data-quote="Steel_Wind" data-source="post: 9090703" data-attributes="member: 20741"><p>The big thing for me is Starship Combat. In SF1 -- it's awful. I know it was Jason Bulmahn's love-letter to <em>Starfleet Battles</em>, but if there is ANYTHING that requires a significant playtest -- with <strong><span style="color: rgb(243, 121, 52)">MULTIPLE combats</span></strong> using the system, it's starship combat.</p><p></p><p><em>Multiple </em>is the key here. With Starship Combat in SF1, the first combat is novel so it's FUN. The second is even better, as you think "hey I'm getting the hang of this, COOL!". And if you stop there -- and most did after being exposed to it by Jason playtesting at Paizocon et al., all seemed well; <strong><em>awesome</em></strong>, even.</p><p></p><p>The problem is that 1 or 2 session experience utterly failed to detect the real problem.</p><p></p><p>Because the third time you play with Starship Combat and you are more comfortable with the rules, a <strong><em>slight doubt </em></strong>starts to creep in: "<em>Hmmm: this does seem a lot like the last combat though</em>".</p><p></p><p>Then the fourth starship combat takes place and everything gels all at once: <strong><em>"This doesn't "seem" like the last combat; it IS like the last combat. Starship Comabt doesn't change. At all." </em></strong></p><p></p><p>About the only thing which changes is who has the initiative round to round. Almost every other "choice" has an optimal answer, and it's the same answer for everyone except the pilot. He/She might have a choice to make from three options. Everybody else? Just one - and in some limited circumstances, a choice between TWO things to roll at/for.</p><p></p><p>And so every combat feels like the same combat. There is no terrain in space (or at least very little) and the map is essentially the same map. The players <strong><em>and</em></strong> GM aren't making meaningful choices, you are all just rolling a D20 to hit a target DC. That's it.</p><p></p><p>And if you are a brave soul who goes in for the <strong>fifth</strong> Starship Combat (or more) you are a small subset of Starfinder's player base. The large majority of GMs and players stop using it all by this point. This is so often even in Starfinder Society play - which is a <em>statement.</em></p><p></p><p>It's a real problem and it needs fixing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Steel_Wind, post: 9090703, member: 20741"] The big thing for me is Starship Combat. In SF1 -- it's awful. I know it was Jason Bulmahn's love-letter to [I]Starfleet Battles[/I], but if there is ANYTHING that requires a significant playtest -- with [B][COLOR=rgb(243, 121, 52)]MULTIPLE combats[/COLOR][/B] using the system, it's starship combat. [I]Multiple [/I]is the key here. With Starship Combat in SF1, the first combat is novel so it's FUN. The second is even better, as you think "hey I'm getting the hang of this, COOL!". And if you stop there -- and most did after being exposed to it by Jason playtesting at Paizocon et al., all seemed well; [B][I]awesome[/I][/B], even. The problem is that 1 or 2 session experience utterly failed to detect the real problem. Because the third time you play with Starship Combat and you are more comfortable with the rules, a [B][I]slight doubt [/I][/B]starts to creep in: "[I]Hmmm: this does seem a lot like the last combat though[/I]". Then the fourth starship combat takes place and everything gels all at once: [B][I]"This doesn't "seem" like the last combat; it IS like the last combat. Starship Comabt doesn't change. At all." [/I][/B] About the only thing which changes is who has the initiative round to round. Almost every other "choice" has an optimal answer, and it's the same answer for everyone except the pilot. He/She might have a choice to make from three options. Everybody else? Just one - and in some limited circumstances, a choice between TWO things to roll at/for. And so every combat feels like the same combat. There is no terrain in space (or at least very little) and the map is essentially the same map. The players [B][I]and[/I][/B] GM aren't making meaningful choices, you are all just rolling a D20 to hit a target DC. That's it. And if you are a brave soul who goes in for the [B]fifth[/B] Starship Combat (or more) you are a small subset of Starfinder's player base. The large majority of GMs and players stop using it all by this point. This is so often even in Starfinder Society play - which is a [I]statement.[/I] It's a real problem and it needs fixing. [/QUOTE]
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