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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jimmifett" data-source="post: 5613726" data-attributes="member: 55006">More things I like about 4e:Class system. Regardless of my choice of PP or ED, i'm still whatever base class I started as at the core. I don't stop being that base class, I continue to grow in it while expanding via my PP and ED. Multiclassing. I can dip my toe in a class to get some abilities and flavor, not needing to spend a whole level in it. Hybrid Classes. Yes, I know they aren't normally as powerful as full classes, but if i have a wonky character in my mind that no single class covers by itself, I can fall back to hybrids and come up with something fun without having to reinvent the wheel. Charging. I much prefer 4e charging than 3.x charging. Gamist. When I want to model real life, I play GURPS (which I enjoy). It's a much better system for that than any edition of DnD. At-Wills. A fun concept. I like fun. I think having just 2 (3 for humans) is a bit limiting and gives rise to at-will spam complaints. A tough point to balance on, but I think having an additional at-will would be nice. Easy to read. My eyes are getting tired quicker in my older age, I don't want background art making it difficult to read stuff, like the 3.x books. PF is nicer to read than 3.x, but I still have to read entire paragraphs of text to find the key piece of a feature I was looking for. The way 4e lays out features, powers, and items gives me the info I need in an easy standardized format that I can glance at and instantly find what I need to know at the moment. More things I don't like about 4e:The Stealth/Concealment rules. I wouldn't exactly say I don't like them, but it's been a sore spot for so long, and I still feel they could use better wording in some way. They've come a long way, but i think there is a tiny bit more to go. Longer combats. This is more due to players that are bad at math, don't know how to run thier character, and don't roleplay out their actions to at least make combat interesting. With the right players, this ceases to be an issue, both time wise, and interesting wise. This can be found in any system really.  More things I like about other D20 Systems:Richer Source Material. 4e has some pretty good source material, such as demonomicon and the newest monster vault, but until recently, I feel wotc was briefly touching down to apease a segment before taking off again to the next, giving just enough to wet appetite. I can understand the logic behind that, there were a ton of setting info in 3rd edition, everyone moans about having to rebuy books anyway, why not let the DM run with the basics of a setting and they can find older fluff material if they need more, or make it themselves. It's a perfectly valid, and smart strategy. While obviously 3rd parties can't get in on the big DnD settings like Eberron and FR and such, PF has done a great job with fleshing out thier own world. More things I don't like about other D20 Systems:Multiclassing. Except for D20 Modern, which I think is an OK multiclass system, and SAGA,  I don't like a lot of the multiclassing of 3.x. It's entirely my personal preference. Having to dip just far enough into a class to get a feature I want... don't like it. I think prestiges should have been something you can take in addition to your base class at a given level for which you qualify, but you can only take one level of a prestige at a time. I guess that would make prestiges like a template or theme you can slide over your base class. I never liked replacing the base. Multiple Attacks. It takes a full round action to miss multiple times. How about instead you just add damage dice instead and have one attack. Yes, I already know the counter argument: "If you miss once, you do no damage, with multiple attack rolls, you can average out the damage even with misses". Don't care. I want to roll lots of damage dice when I hit, like wizards. Rolling lots of dice is fun. I want fun. Sometimes Hard to read. 3.x was bad when it came to having distraction backgrounds behind text. Not so much of a problem with PF, but you know what, stylized cursive can be a pain in the ass to read when I want to know the name of a deity or whatever. White Wolf, while not d20, is the WORST offender in having books that I can't read because they wanted to be fancy with the text. If I can't read your book, why am I going to buy it?  Things I don't like regardless of system:OGL/GSL. This is not part of a rules discussion or part of what makes a system good. This is legalese and rights management. OGL does not make a system good or bad. GSL does not make a system good or bad. These two things always boils down to ideology which has NOTHING to do with the game itself. I personally think wotc shot itself in the foot with OGL and gave away the farm, a bad move money wise (and there is NOTHING wrong with making a buck). However, without it, there wouldn't be PF, which would be a shame, but there wouldn't also be the slew of other horrible games out there. I think wotc learned a lot from the business mistakes in making the OGL, but then shot itself in the other foot by not having the GSL ready early enough, restricted 3rd parties too much in a world where the OGL already existed, and was slow to change it to make it palatable to 3rd parties. Again, all this has NOTHING to do with the game systems themselves and is not a valid point in the merrit of any system as a player / DM.</blockquote>

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