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Message: <blockquote data-quote="illwizard" data-source="post: 5613846" data-attributes="member: 62261">I liked fourth edition alot but admittedly I was really thrown out by essentials and stopped playing soon after the release. From what I've read and heard, the new essentials stuff seems cool and something I might like, but that in itself was more frustrating for me. As much as they are additional rules to the system, they just don't feel like it and it annoyed me that Wizards had made me want to buy into it all again 'cause I wouldn't be hangin' with the cool kids if I didn't. I spent alot of money on 4th ed books and now I'm finding out from earlier replies that the PHB and DMG are virtually useless/redundant? That's what turns me off currently anyway.  But saying that, i'm playing in a new 4th ed (non essentials) game soon which I'm pretty excited about. Also on the issue of grind, for my group it's generally the players fault. I get through my turn quickly enough but others not so much. Cheers</blockquote>