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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5614536" data-attributes="member: 82106">Yeah, I think my opinion is characters are still fundamentally a lot more complex in 4e. You CAN make a pretty usable 1 page sheet, but when I say simple I suspect most people don't actually appreciate just how DIRT simple OD&D characters were. You had 6 stats, HP, AC, XP, GOLD, CLASS, LEVEL, your weapon, damage, any items you carried, and that was about it. A thief had abilities (but you could look those up) and casters had a couple spells. I recall routinely putting 4 PCs on a sheet before starting a game. Usually one would survive to 3rd level and get written on a new sheet.OK. I am not sure I'd really like to see the return of significantly different mechanics for each class though myself. I think Essentials has proven that you can do a pretty wide variety of things within the same core framework. I'm not sure I exactly really like the details of the way they did it, but it does inarguably work.My feeling is that 4e characters (classic PHB style ones) ARE in actual play as different as the classes in any previous version were, but the way they achieved it was rather incremental. Instead of having 2-3 big features that clearly blocked out exactly what the character is about they have a number of smaller synergistic features, certain patterns of power design, etc that effectively implement the idea, but don't always seem to hit the players hard enough on the head with it. When you play a BS rogue and a hard hitting great weapon fighter you SEE the differences, but they are emergent properties. While this is some fairly elegant game design it seems to create a presentation problem.I'd think a redesign would want to feature a more 'beat you over the head with it' sort of class design. I'd also reduce the number and variety of powers and make them individually more significant and more clearly delineated between classes. That would emphasize the differences more explicitly and also simplify achieving a specific concept, character generation in general, and play at the table as well. Even so I would do all of that within the sort of framework 4e uses. I might have to change a good amount of numbers and rework certain game elements a bit, but it seems doable.</blockquote>

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