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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
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<blockquote data-quote="Saracenus" data-source="post: 5615938" data-attributes="member: 47839"><p>A lot of the, "WotC told me my version of D&D sucks!" meme came from WotC allowing their designers to speak their unfiltered minds to bloggers and sites like this. </p><p></p><p>There was a lot of enthusiasm on the part of these designers for the new stuff they were starting to tease out to the public and some impolitic things were said, but most were innocent comments taken waaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion (this is the interwebs after all) and it put peoples backs up.</p><p></p><p>This stumble out of the marketing gate was followed up by what I consider the greatest failing of 4e, the GSL. The punitive and overly aggressive clawback of 3rd party rights doomed us to the Paizo/WotC D&D split.</p><p></p><p>Whatever your position on the OGL (greatest thing since sliced bread, ultimate evil in the universe, or something in between) WotC was correct in thinking that the OGL was too permissive. At the same time the GSL was not the answer because it pretty much killed 3rd party support that drove sales of their core product (the core rules) during the 3rd edition years.</p><p></p><p>I love me some 4e as a DM and a player. But the stagnation of innovation in adventure design and application of the rules is what has really held this game back from the popular support it richly deserves.</p><p></p><p>I personally don't love the premise of the 4th Core movement but they really did show that 4e was elastic enough to support some very creative play options without breaking it. Imagine if the energy and raw enthusiasm of 4th Core had been tempered and amplified by companies like Paizo, Necormancer, Green Ronin, Mongoose, etc.</p><p></p><p>The key to saving 4e is bringing us and 3rd party publishers back into the mix. Crowd sourcing play tests, open design and publisher safe harbors, more flexible online tools that allow us to play the 4e game WE want to play, not just the core rules that WotC provides us are the stepping stones to survival.</p><p></p><p>But that is all crazy talk from this Organizer/DM/Player who dreams of us sharing our love of D&D without destructive backbiting we have been so prone towards these last few years.</p><p></p><p>Welp, back to my D&D Encounters organizing, my 4e DMing and playing, and come August my first foray into Pathfinder as a player...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Saracenus, post: 5615938, member: 47839"] A lot of the, "WotC told me my version of D&D sucks!" meme came from WotC allowing their designers to speak their unfiltered minds to bloggers and sites like this. There was a lot of enthusiasm on the part of these designers for the new stuff they were starting to tease out to the public and some impolitic things were said, but most were innocent comments taken waaaaaaaaaaay out of proportion (this is the interwebs after all) and it put peoples backs up. This stumble out of the marketing gate was followed up by what I consider the greatest failing of 4e, the GSL. The punitive and overly aggressive clawback of 3rd party rights doomed us to the Paizo/WotC D&D split. Whatever your position on the OGL (greatest thing since sliced bread, ultimate evil in the universe, or something in between) WotC was correct in thinking that the OGL was too permissive. At the same time the GSL was not the answer because it pretty much killed 3rd party support that drove sales of their core product (the core rules) during the 3rd edition years. I love me some 4e as a DM and a player. But the stagnation of innovation in adventure design and application of the rules is what has really held this game back from the popular support it richly deserves. I personally don't love the premise of the 4th Core movement but they really did show that 4e was elastic enough to support some very creative play options without breaking it. Imagine if the energy and raw enthusiasm of 4th Core had been tempered and amplified by companies like Paizo, Necormancer, Green Ronin, Mongoose, etc. The key to saving 4e is bringing us and 3rd party publishers back into the mix. Crowd sourcing play tests, open design and publisher safe harbors, more flexible online tools that allow us to play the 4e game WE want to play, not just the core rules that WotC provides us are the stepping stones to survival. But that is all crazy talk from this Organizer/DM/Player who dreams of us sharing our love of D&D without destructive backbiting we have been so prone towards these last few years. Welp, back to my D&D Encounters organizing, my 4e DMing and playing, and come August my first foray into Pathfinder as a player... [/QUOTE]
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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
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