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Message: <blockquote data-quote="catastrophic" data-source="post: 5616370" data-attributes="member: 81381">Based on their design work for pathfinder, and the new classes? No. I don't think they could. I think they're good at maknig modules and acessories, but I see nothing to suggest that they could handle 4e, even if they wanted to.  Again, really really good designers from outside of the D&D norm got really excited about 4e when it came out, many of them took a shot at designing for it, and at least one of them came away saying 'whew, this is hard!' I'm not impresed by paizo design wise, it's as simple as that. And by any analisis, they are the most successful potential creators of 3pp. Where does that leave everyone else? This is exactly what i'm talking about. You're talking rubbish. Bashing playstyles? Please. No, it was on the poor design. Throw a will save at a high level fighter, and they scream and run, or worse yet, drop dead on the spot. Move out of melee range and they're helpless unless they have the right kind of magical movement. And no matter what they can do with weapons, a properly buffed cleric can do more, better, for longer, and do it all day long with substitution feats.  A lot of people make excuses for the old editions. Most of these excuses are not legit. It doesn't matter how many bookworkms and late night ambushes you throw at a high level spellcaster in 3e, they're still going to come out ahead of the fighter and most other classes, every, single time.</blockquote>

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