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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5616798" data-attributes="member: 82106">I think there's a pretty decent amount of agreement, at some level, on what irritates people with 4e. I think classes ARE quite distinct, but you really do have to actually understand something about each class and how it works to see that. As for powers being 'samey', it is somewhat true, but I think the main issue here is simply that there are so MANY of them. With 8,000 powers, and lets face it most powers are going to deal with some aspect of combat, that area of 4e design space is simply overloaded IMHO. In a sense it doesn't matter too much as long as you have a fairly limited number of highly distinct base classes. I mean supposing there had been just 4 classes then it doesn't really matter much if the wizard has 12 different ranged AoE spells, wizard is the class that has that kind of thing and it is no big deal, the fighter powers are a whole different ball of wax. After all 3e wizard spell list runs to many 100's of spells, there's plenty of room for something like 4 good solid power lists, even with the somewhat more narrow focus of 4e powers. The problem is when you have THIRTY classes and you have wizard, warlock, and sorcerer all sharing quite similar thematic concept space. Then you have a variety of other classes like Invoker and Psion sharing a good bit of overlap with that. It is simply infeasible to make them all quite distinct. They certainly aren't identical, but they do tend to overlap a good bit. In all previous editions you could be sure that there was little overlap. So I don't personally think the issue is that all classes have AEDU power structure. I think it is just that there are too blinkin many classes overall. I mean the 2e designers clearly understood the hazard of this when they merged the illusionist and druid spell lists into their parent classes.</blockquote>

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