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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
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<blockquote data-quote="wlmartin" data-source="post: 5621087" data-attributes="member: 6679380"><p>The fact is that the biggest change they made in 4e is rebalancing of all of the classes.</p><p></p><p>I assure you that if you are bored, crack open the Character Builder and build a Fighter and Barbarian. Choose powers that relate to raw attacks rather than ongoing damage or debuffs and level them to 30.</p><p></p><p>If you take all of the daily and encounter powers and figure out the medium damage value for those attacks (ie 3D12 + 18 would be 21-54, or a medium of 37.5), add them all up and divide by the amount of attacks you will find the number is pretty much the same between the 2.</p><p></p><p>Is that a coincidence? Not really - the Devs just put a lot of time into determining why a certain power is 2W instead of 1W etc.</p><p></p><p>Sure, the Highs & Lows of the Powers are going to swing differently, otherwise you have a duplication of the same class but in the grand scheme of things the threat level of each class when you look at the raw ability is the same. It is the choices the PC makes when building his CHAR that create differences (such as focusing on abilities and feats that improve areas other than pure damage) but overall the threat level is balanced.</p><p></p><p>This never existed before in D&D. There was massive unbalancing to the point where a Wizard was only good for dropping certain enemies, Rogues were only useful when a trap needed opening, Clerics acted as Healbots... </p><p></p><p>It is this balancing that exists throughout the entire 4e core rules that shows through on every single encounter. It doesnt of course mean that there is no value to playing one class over another, there sure is but at least you don't feel like you are the weak link (or even boast to be the strong link) in the chain, everyone has their role and there is a lot more equality across the board.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="wlmartin, post: 5621087, member: 6679380"] The fact is that the biggest change they made in 4e is rebalancing of all of the classes. I assure you that if you are bored, crack open the Character Builder and build a Fighter and Barbarian. Choose powers that relate to raw attacks rather than ongoing damage or debuffs and level them to 30. If you take all of the daily and encounter powers and figure out the medium damage value for those attacks (ie 3D12 + 18 would be 21-54, or a medium of 37.5), add them all up and divide by the amount of attacks you will find the number is pretty much the same between the 2. Is that a coincidence? Not really - the Devs just put a lot of time into determining why a certain power is 2W instead of 1W etc. Sure, the Highs & Lows of the Powers are going to swing differently, otherwise you have a duplication of the same class but in the grand scheme of things the threat level of each class when you look at the raw ability is the same. It is the choices the PC makes when building his CHAR that create differences (such as focusing on abilities and feats that improve areas other than pure damage) but overall the threat level is balanced. This never existed before in D&D. There was massive unbalancing to the point where a Wizard was only good for dropping certain enemies, Rogues were only useful when a trap needed opening, Clerics acted as Healbots... It is this balancing that exists throughout the entire 4e core rules that shows through on every single encounter. It doesnt of course mean that there is no value to playing one class over another, there sure is but at least you don't feel like you are the weak link (or even boast to be the strong link) in the chain, everyone has their role and there is a lot more equality across the board. [/QUOTE]
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What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
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