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Message: <blockquote data-quote="nnms" data-source="post: 5633732" data-attributes="member: 83293">Other issues will be brought in when you start comparing things like that.  For example, what is the to-hit and saving throw change rate of the 1E cleric?  the paladin?  the thief?4E has the math change as a universal part of the system.  AD&D does not.Mmmm.... layer cake dungeon ..... mmmmmThe only issue is that other 4E features prevent the layer cake dungeon from working.  Set piece tactical encounters, combat taking too long, power refresh cycles, leveling up way too fast, XP sources, etc.,.  They all contribute to the system not working well for that kind of play.I've managed to houserule the game to the point of making it work.  But just because I can fix rules to get the type of play I want, doesn't mean those rules work for that type of play.This thread is about problems people have with 4E and what caused them to move onto other systems or what other systems they like better.   4E does it's own kind of game very, very well, but it's simply not holding my interest as a DM and I've outlined the cracks that are starting to show for me.The MM3 math helped this in some regards, but the issues with combat length and grind will pop up if you do that.  And if you do the opposite, it'll be a cakewalk thanks to the power refresh cycles.  4E really does have a sweet spot when it comes to encounter design.Ahh.. you still believe monsters are objectively defined by their stats and that a Kobold Dragonshield is a level 2 soldier and that's that.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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