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Message: <blockquote data-quote="catastrophic" data-source="post: 5635148" data-attributes="member: 81381">MY point is that by codifying it, but leaving it flexible, it makes the game better.  Before 4e, any gm could, if properly motivated, put in a bit where a guy falls off a cliff. It would be mostly arbitary, and the players really couldn't do it much unless the DM let them. In 4e, forcedmovements means that if there's a cliff in a fight, somebody's probably going to fall off it, or end up hanging off the edge as 'prone' after making their fall save, and that is cool! Sure, there is plenty wrong with 4e, and you don't always want people falling off cliffs, but the fact remains- codifying this stuff into a system in a good way, makes for more and better options.  Why do we construct combat as being about killing people? Why can't we have as a basic assumption that there are other options? Remember morale? Why not say to a GM, "hey if you're going to be engaging in one of our awesome (and hopefully less grindy) 5e combats, you need to look over this big list of simple mini-rules and add two minors and one major, based on what fits the encounter.  Then you can have things written up with a simple description and values, Morale, Countdown, Power Source, Optional Recurring Villain, and a whole lot more, for the GM to put those kind of cool conditions into their fights, as a matter of course, not as an option that far too many people neglect.  And yeah, for those times when it really is coming down to a stright up slugfest, you could include options like To The Death, This Ends Now, Potentially Phyric, and other takes on that idea, again, written out as little mini-rules.  4e has exception based systems- the rules are in the power. I'd suggest exception based victory conditions, a big old chapter fuill of them, with minimal but clear rules, so that each battle can have it's own unique style, while still giving the GM the support for creating that style, that a good system should offer.  4e Already is that game. I started thinking about hero points for a hypothetical 5e when I realised that Action Points and Healing surges were both metagame resources that worked a lot better if you treated them as such.  5e could have a unified Hero Point mechanic that, optionally, DMs could choose to split into multiple mechanics like Action Points, Wound Points, Resource Points, and Prestige Points. This would not be more abstract, it would be less abstract, by allowing the GM to get good support from the rules, while also managing in a real sense, the different asets the players have at their disposal, and decising what those assets can be used for.  And the system could go further, taking say, wound points, and putting them into a wound system, or having Resource Points be the 'value' of various assets like land and gold. The point is that all of this would stil be governed by a strong unified mechanic, with a bunch of built in options to give GMs control of what kind of power and problems the pcs face.  In one game, Hero points could fill in for all those things. In another, each subtype might be used at reasonable death. In a third, Action and Wound Points might be unified, Prestige Points could be their own thing, while resource Points are codified fully as land, gold, livestock, ect.  If i was to propose a stakes system in full, it would e one that would be accessable at any time, so that the scenario you describe would be more than likely to occur. The kery would be figuring out how to manage the difference between player stakes, and party stakes, and that's why something like a hero point mechanic becomes very useful. Again, that's kinda my point. I do not want GMs having to deal with ideas lke land and cattle unless they want to, really want to.  Hence, a unified, simplified Resource Point mechanic, where they can just mark how many ReP they have, and flavour it in RP however they want. And potentially, letting the GM simplify things further, and fold ReP and the otehr points into a single, unified Hero Point mechanic that governs everything from extra actions, to wounds, to browbeating the king into rallying his armies.</blockquote>

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