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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
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<blockquote data-quote="nnms" data-source="post: 5635476" data-attributes="member: 83293"><p>A thirteenth feature of 4E that I used to love but now see as a negative:</p><p></p><p>13) Hard definitions of modes of play and the transition between those modes.</p><p></p><p>The DMG defines a few different modes of play. Including setup, exploration, conversation, encounter and passing time. While the DMG says that the transitions will be smooth and not very noticeable, that's rarely the case in practice.</p><p></p><p>It can be very jarring to enter combat after conversation. Often the table will be cleared and a map or tiles will be put down. You'll go through the rituals of initiative and setting up the position of creatures on the map.</p><p></p><p>With 4E the situation prior to the change of mode is often irrelevant. The DM is going to run a set piece tactical encounter. The situation is just a setup for the encounter mode. </p><p></p><p>Compare this to other games where you use the continual description of PC actions and use the system as needed to resolve what comes up. There doesn't have to be a harsh shift where the participants change how they resolve things and stop thinking about things in terms of resolving questions in the fiction and start thinking about squares of movement, tactical moves, healing surges, etc.,.</p><p></p><p>So how does Savage Worlds stack up? Poorly. It too has very miniature focused combat rules (everything is given in inches) with a set combat mode. But at the very least, it's very, very easy to run the game with entirely descriptive combats compared to 4E.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="nnms, post: 5635476, member: 83293"] A thirteenth feature of 4E that I used to love but now see as a negative: 13) Hard definitions of modes of play and the transition between those modes. The DMG defines a few different modes of play. Including setup, exploration, conversation, encounter and passing time. While the DMG says that the transitions will be smooth and not very noticeable, that's rarely the case in practice. It can be very jarring to enter combat after conversation. Often the table will be cleared and a map or tiles will be put down. You'll go through the rituals of initiative and setting up the position of creatures on the map. With 4E the situation prior to the change of mode is often irrelevant. The DM is going to run a set piece tactical encounter. The situation is just a setup for the encounter mode. Compare this to other games where you use the continual description of PC actions and use the system as needed to resolve what comes up. There doesn't have to be a harsh shift where the participants change how they resolve things and stop thinking about things in terms of resolving questions in the fiction and start thinking about squares of movement, tactical moves, healing surges, etc.,. So how does Savage Worlds stack up? Poorly. It too has very miniature focused combat rules (everything is given in inches) with a set combat mode. But at the very least, it's very, very easy to run the game with entirely descriptive combats compared to 4E. [/QUOTE]
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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
What's so bad about 4th edition? What's so good about other systems?
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