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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 5655403" data-attributes="member: 996">Comparing 4e to other eds of the game is not like comparing baseball and football.&nbsp; It's like comparing modern American football to football as it was played in America before the forward pass.&nbsp; Rules can be good or bad and can be judged as such.&nbsp; There are both qualitative and quantitative assessments to be made, and both objective observations and subjective impressions that might go into that judgement, of course. Whethere you like a rule set is opinion.&nbsp; Whether a rule set fails to function in areas it was intended to cover is not.&nbsp; Prior eds of D&amp;D broke down over much wider ranges of use than 4e does.&nbsp; 4e is a better rule set by that criterion, among others.&nbsp; That a game has well-designed, functional rules doesn't oblige anyone to like it, though.I rather doubt that.&nbsp; The functional aspects of, say, 3.0 or AD&amp;D were mostly clustered in a level range - arguable, but maybe 3rd-12th or 4-7th - 4e expanded that range.&nbsp; If you liked AD&amp;D when it was working, you'd probably like 4e, when it's working (which is most of the time).&nbsp; OTOH, if you enjoyed the spectacle of AD&amp;D breaking down at higher levels, you'd be dissapointed by 4e, which may become a bit less functional at Epic, but not in nearly the same way AD&amp;D or 3e used to.Actually there is.&nbsp; It's self-contradictory.&nbsp; The play experience of an old ed is a combination of it's good points /and/ it's flaws.&nbsp; You 'fix' an old ed, you change it's feel.&nbsp; If you're out to find an old feel, you're looking to re-institute old problems.&nbsp; Well, there is every other ed of D&amp;D - and it does come out ahead by many a reasoned comparison.Totally different? They aren't both medieval fantasy games?&nbsp; They don't both use a d20 vs a DC resolution mechanic?&nbsp; Classes?&nbsp; Hps?&nbsp; Races?&nbsp; Feats?&nbsp; Skills?&nbsp; Wizards who prepare spells? Cyclical innitiative with Delay and Ready actions?&nbsp; They don't both favor 'focus fire' as a tactic, or require a party to have some healing resources to succeed?&nbsp; Actually they're quite similar, not least of all because they /are/ both D&amp;D.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 5655403, member: 996"] Comparing 4e to other eds of the game is not like comparing baseball and football. It's like comparing modern American football to football as it was played in America before the forward pass. Rules can be good or bad and can be judged as such. There are both qualitative and quantitative assessments to be made, and both objective observations and subjective impressions that might go into that judgement, of course. Whethere you like a rule set is opinion. Whether a rule set fails to function in areas it was intended to cover is not. Prior eds of D&D broke down over much wider ranges of use than 4e does. 4e is a better rule set by that criterion, among others. That a game has well-designed, functional rules doesn't oblige anyone to like it, though. I rather doubt that. The functional aspects of, say, 3.0 or AD&D were mostly clustered in a level range - arguable, but maybe 3rd-12th or 4-7th - 4e expanded that range. If you liked AD&D when it was working, you'd probably like 4e, when it's working (which is most of the time). OTOH, if you enjoyed the spectacle of AD&D breaking down at higher levels, you'd be dissapointed by 4e, which may become a bit less functional at Epic, but not in nearly the same way AD&D or 3e used to. Actually there is. It's self-contradictory. The play experience of an old ed is a combination of it's good points /and/ it's flaws. You 'fix' an old ed, you change it's feel. If you're out to find an old feel, you're looking to re-institute old problems. Well, there is every other ed of D&D - and it does come out ahead by many a reasoned comparison. Totally different? They aren't both medieval fantasy games? They don't both use a d20 vs a DC resolution mechanic? Classes? Hps? Races? Feats? Skills? Wizards who prepare spells? Cyclical innitiative with Delay and Ready actions? They don't both favor 'focus fire' as a tactic, or require a party to have some healing resources to succeed? Actually they're quite similar, not least of all because they /are/ both D&D. [/QUOTE]

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