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<blockquote data-quote="Mon" data-source="post: 6063460" data-attributes="member: 71673">If people want to play a complex RPG they can play GURPS. That is a silly thing for me to have said, because many people want to play complex D&amp;D and have every right to do so.Conversely, many people want to play simple D&amp;D and likewise have every right to do so.&nbsp;From my POV, I wonder what is the fun of a complex game? To me, thousands of options seem to get in the way of the fun. However I know many people love them so I don't begrudge expansions that add them and I certainly won't be (seriously) telling them to go play another game because of it.Simple D&amp;D has been around for a long time: BECMI, 1e, 2e, early (no splats) 3.x and ealry (no splats) 4e. None of them are overly complex &quot;out of the box&quot;. We like it that way. We run businesses, have families, play sports, go the pub, travel overseas. For these reasons and more D&amp;D has always been a casual, but much loved, creative and social outlet for us. A fun, social, shared world.That's the fun of a simple edition (NOTE: It's also very much part of the fun of a complex edition, we just try to avoid that complexity to focus on the above because we enjoy that aspect more).Sure, you can add complexity to these editions with splats etc; Late 2e/3e/4e are all extremely complex. However the splats for 3/4e and the innate complexity of pathfinder drove us away from &quot;supported&quot; D&amp;D for the past 4-5 years. I don't begrudge others that enjoyment, however.So why can't 5e, the supposedly inclusive edition, allow us to return to the &quot;supported&quot; version of the game we've loved for so many years? Because your method of &quot;complex&quot; fun is better than our method of &quot;casual&quot; fun? Thus, 5e should cater to you can we should go play some other game? That's as unfair and unreasonable as my opening line in this post. Also, I don't enjoy video games (is there a simple tabletop version of WOW? If so disregard this line).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mon, post: 6063460, member: 71673"] [I] If people want to play a complex RPG they can play GURPS.[/I] That is a silly thing for me to have said, because many people want to play complex D&D and have every right to do so. Conversely, many people want to play simple D&D and likewise have every right to do so. From my POV, I wonder what is the fun of a complex game? To me, thousands of options seem to get in the way of the fun. However I know many people love them so I don't begrudge expansions that add them and I certainly won't be (seriously) telling them to go play another game because of it. Simple D&D has been around for a long time: BECMI, 1e, 2e, early (no splats) 3.x and ealry (no splats) 4e. None of them are overly complex "out of the box". We like it that way. We run businesses, have families, play sports, go the pub, travel overseas. For these reasons and more D&D has always been a casual, but much loved, creative and social outlet for us. A fun, social, shared world. That's the fun of a simple edition (NOTE: It's also very much part of the fun of a complex edition, we just try to avoid that complexity to focus on the above because we enjoy that aspect more). Sure, you can add complexity to these editions with splats etc; Late 2e/3e/4e are all extremely complex. However the splats for 3/4e and the innate complexity of pathfinder drove us away from "supported" D&D for the past 4-5 years. I don't begrudge others that enjoyment, however. So why can't 5e, the supposedly inclusive edition, allow us to return to the "supported" version of the game we've loved for so many years? Because your method of "complex" fun is better than our method of "casual" fun? Thus, 5e should cater to you can we should go play some other game? That's as unfair and unreasonable as my opening line in this post. Also, I don't enjoy video games (is there a simple tabletop version of WOW? If so disregard this line). [/QUOTE]

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