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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lizard" data-source="post: 4044610" data-attributes="member: 1054">(Posting this in the 4e forum since grappling is one of the things many people want to see "fixed" in 4e; convince me that it's broken in 3x.)This is the constant refrain: Grappling is hard! (Just like math, Barbie.) NO ONE uses it EVER because it's JUST TOO COMPLICATED! (I apparently game with the only people on the entire planet who grapple in D&D 3x.)The frack?Everything about the grappling rules is logical -- indeed, they're more logical than most of D&Ds abstract rules.a)Suffer an AOO: You've dropped your weapons, or at least aren't using them, and are rushing at some orc with your arms wide. Yeah, he's going to take a stab at you -- unless you've spent extra time and effort to learn to do this right. (Improved Grapple)b)Make a touch attack. In order to grapple someone, you have to, y'know, touch them. Why a touch attack? Because having thick hide or wearing plate armor doesn't keep people from hugging you. A low charisma might, but those rules are in BOEF.c)Roll opposed grapple checks. You want to hug the orc; the orc thinks you're invading his personal space and doesn't want it to be hugs time now please. He tries to push you away; you try not to be pushed away. The numbers which make up the grapple check -- strength, size, and general combat skill -- all make sense. And they're pre-calced for you and usually don't change in-play. d)If you win, you've grappled the foe. There's a lot of changes to what you can and can't do when playing hug-an-orc, and they're all spelled out, and they're all pretty logical. You can't leap around the battlefield (you're flat footed), it's hard to make those 'subtle hand gestures' when someone's crushing your arms (no spells with somatic components) and so on.Frankly, I find the Turning rules more annoying, since they don't work like anything else in game. I figure that if I don't more to 4e, I'll be rolling those into my 3x games. But that's another thread...</blockquote>

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