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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4044629" data-attributes="member: 710">Turning rules only "defense" is that they apply to only one character class. The Fighter, Rogue and Wizard don't have to bother with them, they just see whether the undeads run, turn to dust, or laugh at the whimsical cleric...Still, the rules suck. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />The Grapple rules are a problem because everybody can be affected by them. You don't get to choose whether you use them or not. That makes it important to keep them simple. Personally, I think we managed to use grapple fairly often and effectively (in fact, in our Shackled City campaign, my Fighter was quite good at it and relied on it against many monsters or NPCs).But sometimes I am not so sure anymore:- If you have established your hold, do you deal damage? Or is this only possible with a special ability like Constrict?- If a monster has the Constrict ability, does it deal its constrict damage in addition to normal damage on subsequent grapple checks? Does it add its natural weapon damage or its unarmed damage?- If you pin someone, do you deal damage? How much damage do you deal?- What kind of attacks are still possible while grappled? What's with all my natural attacks?- Can I use sneak attack or Feint in Grapple?- Can you sunder, disarm, or trip while yoU're or he is in Grapple? What's when you're pinning someone?- Can a ranged attacker firing into grapple accidently sneak attack his ally, or make a succesful critical hit?- Can you use a ranged weapon in grapple?- Do I keep my shield bonus (against the grappler or an outside enemy?)Other people might have problems with even determining what they can do at all in a Grapple. Sometimes you forget that you (or rather the grappling monster) lose your Reach (unless off course you use the -20 penalty to grapple checks option - by the way, do I need Improved Grab for that or is it an autoamtic option?) and can't take AoOs against opponents outside of Grapple (But can you do against opponents in Grapple)It would be far easier if "Grappled" was just a condition similar to Entangle. It would be enough to say that you suffer a penalty to AC and can't move unless your Grappler allows it (or you beat him with your Grapple check). On top of all that, Grappling is also a horrible unbalanced attack form. Larger monsters usually have more strength (very often a lot more than PCs) _and_ gain a strong modifier on their Grapple checks. This combination quickly outstrips the range of a d20, and that means that even a fighter (possibly even one with some feats for grappling) has no chance of defending himself in grapple. The best target to grapple is probably a spellcaster (if he doesn't have a teleportation spell handy) or a Rogue. Quick death is guaranteed (and if you catch the Rogue, nobody can really take benefit of your lost Dex bonus anyway)The complexity of the grapple rules never bothered me as much as their bad game balance.</blockquote>

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