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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 4044760" data-attributes="member: 3146">The complaints about grapple being "too hard" always struck me as pretty lame too. At the base, they're a pretty elegant system.Now there are some complications--mostly caused by the FAQ (just like Protection from Evil and Evard's Black Tentacles were better before they were FAQed up). Grapple being a strange not attack roll, not strength check, gives it the odd distinction that you can power attack without reducing your grapple roll but increase your grapple damage (as per an unarmed strike). Likewise, if you have seven negative levels, that's a -7 on strength checks AND attack rolls, but according to the FAQ it has no impact on your grapple check. Likewise, the rules for attacking with natural weapons in a grapple are buried in the rake entry of the monster manual (hardly the first place someone would look) and the rules for Improved Grab vary from extremely to ridiculously harsh depending on interpretation. (So, I hit you with the improved grab monster, I deal damage from the attack, I win the grapple check, according to some interpretations, I get to deal damage as per the attack that started the grapple again for winning the grapple check, and if the monster has constrict, since it won the grapple check, it gets to deal constrict damage. That adds up REALLY fast).Now, if you ask me, makng grapple an attack roll subject to all the normal bonuses and penalties, clarifying natural weapon attacks, and making constrict a special attack that deals damage when you pin an opponent (rather than any time you win a grapple check for any reason) would be plenty of simplification and would leave an elegant and streamlined rules subsystem.</blockquote>

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