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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Keenath" data-source="post: 4044846" data-attributes="member: 59792">It is to laugh.  Let's see it.Quite honestly, the AOO is the least of the issues.Um, dude, they already can do that.  Melee touch attacks are keyed off of strength -- whether they should be or not! -- and include base attack bonus, which adds up to an ogre having a +8 on his touch attack against a pixie's 15 touch AC.  The clumsy ogre only needs a 7 to succeed at grabbing a nimble pixie.They don't really balance anything, but go ahead.It's not really the 3.x changes that cause the problem -- it's that you have to look up whatever you want to do on the list and see if you can do it at all, and if so, find out how -- because it's not the usual way.But as previously mentioned, very large creatures are usually strong, and therefore very good at melee touches -- AND very good at starting and maintaining grapples.  AND, ironically, very good at resisting "Shadow of the Colossus" style monster-climbing.The point is that grapples are *different* from the usual rules, so learning one system in no way informs the other.If the grapple rules used the same set of rules as the rest of the game, it would work fine -- but it doesn't do that.For example, the Star Wars SE vehicle combat system has dogfighting, which is the vehicular equivalent of a grapple.As a standard action or an attack of opportunity, you make an opposed Pilot check, with a -5 on the initiator.  If you succeed, you've pulled the other guy into a dogfight.Consequences?  Every round, you have to use an action to Dogfight and you can't leave the square unless you successfully disengage.What can you do in a dogfight?  Well, as previously mentioned, you have to use an action every turn to Dogfight, and you can either attack or try to disengage with that action. If you attack, it costs a standard action.  You make an opposed Pilot check (no penalty) and if you succeed, you can fire one weapon at the enemy ship (a normal attack roll) as a swift action.  If you fail, you can't fire.If you try to disengage, it costs a move action. You make an opposed pilot check, and if you win you escape and move away.Outsiders firing into a dogfight take a -5 on their attack roll.Obviously physical combat doesn't have a Pilot-check-equivalent to represent your facility at moving quickly and accurately*, but this is a good example of a simple grapple rule that doesn't go too far outside of what is already expected in combat.  You're doing all that with only skill checks, attack rolls, penalties, and action types.*Actually, maybe there is.  Use an Athletics check (or whatever skill includes the tumble ability) instead of a Pilot check, and these would probably work fine.</blockquote>

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