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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dausuul" data-source="post: 4045075" data-attributes="member: 58197">IMO, one could dramatically improve the grapple rules by rewriting them to look something like this, although this is just off the top of my head and would undoubtedly need fine-tuning.  The most important thing is to completely separate grapple checks from attacks.  Using a weapon of any type, including a natural one, should follow the normal attack rules.  A grapple check ought to be a separate thing.(Grapple checks are as in the normal rules.  However, the Weapon Finesse feat allows you to use Dexterity in place of Strength when grappling.)Initiating a Grapple: Grappling is initiated with a touch attack at -4 followed by an opposed grapple check, as a standard action.  If the touch attack misses, the target gets an AoO and the grapple attempt fails.Special Grappling Actions: You can make a grapple check as a standard action, opposed by your opponent's grapple check, to escape a grapple, pin a foe, or attempt a crush.If you succeed on a pin attempt, your foe is rendered helpless until the start of your next turn.A successful crush attempt inflicts nonlethal damage based on your size (no damage for Diminutive or Fine grapplers, 1 for Tiny, 1d2 for Small, 1d4 for Medium, 1d8 for Large, 2d8 for Huge, 4d8 for Gargantuan, 6d8 for Colossal), plus your Strength modifier.Note the lack of options to substitute a grapple check for an attack.  This is a huge source of confusion with the 3.5E rules, especially when iterative attacks are factored in.Effects of Grappling: Your reach is reduced to zero, and you cannot use reach or ranged weapons while grappling.Yes, this means you can use a greatsword while grappling.  Medieval training manuals showed many close-combat maneuvers to be performed with a greatsword, such as bashing the enemy's face in with the hilt.  Also note the lack of any special rules governing attacks while grappling--no using a grapple check in place of an attack roll, for instance.Grappling creatures lose their Dexterity bonus to AC, but all attacks against grapplers are at -4, whether from inside or outside the grapple.  This stacks with the usual penalty for making ranged attacks into melee.  If a grappler takes up more spaces on the board than its opponent, the penalty only applies to attacks made into squares that both combatants occupy.Key element here--the effects of grappling do not change depending on whether you're being attacked from inside or outside the grapple.  Also, rogues are now potentially very dangerous grapplers, since they're apt to take advantage of their easy access to your kidney.If you try to move while grappling, you move at half speed, and the weight of your opponent is added to your encumbrance.  If the total exceeds the maximum amount you can carry, you are unable to move.  Allied grapplers can divide an opponent's weight between them.You cannot perform spells with somatic components while grappling, and casting other spells requires a Concentration check at a DC of 15 plus the spell level.Improved Grab ability: You can initiate a grapple after a successful natural weapon attack.  The natural weapon attack takes the place of the usual touch attack, and you do not provoke attacks of opportunity if it misses.Furthermore, if you grapple a foe using your natural weapon, you can grab and hold rather than initiating a full grapple.  You suffer a -20 penalty on your grapple checks when you do this.  The foe is considered to be grappled normally, but you do not lose your Dexterity bonus, your reach is unaffected, your movement speed is not halved, and you can use reach and ranged weapons normally.  All the other effects of grappling still apply to you.You cannot attack with your natural weapon while using it to grab and hold.  If you use that natural weapon, your opponent is immediately released from the grapple.Constrict ability: This ability increases the amount of damage you inflict with a crush attempt, and changes it to lethal damage.  Furthermore, if you have used Improved Grab to grab and hold an enemy, you can make a crush attempt against that enemy as a free action once per round.Rake ability: You get extra natural weapons that you can only use against a foe you have grappled.Improved Grapple feat: You gain +4 to all grapple checks, do not suffer the usual -4 penalty on the touch attack to initiate a grapple, and do not provoke attacks of opportunity if the touch attack fails.  You can also inflict lethal damage with a crush attempt.</blockquote>

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