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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GregoryOatmeal" data-source="post: 5690000" data-attributes="member: 6667661">Edit: My thesis was wrong. 4E actually does have a surprisingly large fan base and unlike the folks ranting about "imaginary numbers" I have data to prove it. The RPG.net poll suggests the game has an older fanbase that stick with the game through edition changes.<a href="http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?576813-Double-Poll-what-version-of-D-amp-D-do-you-like-best-and-when-did-you-start-playing-D-amp-D" target="_blank">http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?576813-Double-Poll-what-version-of-D-amp-D-do-you-like-best-and-when-did-you-start-playing-D-amp-D</a><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/239570-dungeons-dragons-editions-where-do-you-stand.html" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/239570-dungeons-dragons-editions-where-do-you-stand.html</a>With Monte Cook back at WOTC everyone's talking about 5E. Before the game is even announced I'm very skeptical of buying a new system, as I already have various resources for 2E, 3E, 4E, C&C, and PF. This game would have to be unbelievably good for me to invest money in it. I have a feeling I'm not alone.I'm not trying to flare an edition war, I'm not even commenting on the quality of the games - I actually like 4E. I just want to talk about what I've noticed amongst gamers in my community and the economics of the market. I'll play anything - which is part of the reason I gave up on 4E. Everyone I know seems to hate it. I know like 7 circles of gamers and I just can't find enough 4E players. Some things I've noticed amongst the gamers I know.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I live in a college town. I can't comment on kids under 18 but most of the adults (20s, 30s, 40s) seem to feel similar about 4E. These notes may be age-biased.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Of the 40 or so gamers I know I'm probably one of the five that's interested in playing 4E. After years of running it I prefer 3.5 or PF or C&C. I just assume most gamers I meet don't like 3.5 because it's almost always true.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Everyone who plays games regularly has played 3.5</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Amongst D&D games (I'm referring to WOTC, TSR, or Paizo Dungeons and Dragons games or clones, not Cthulu/Dragon Age/etc.) about 60% run on 3.5 rules. 20% are Pathfinder. I've heard of two AD&D 2E groups and two 4E groups.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I've never met anyone in this town that subscribed to D&D Insider.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Most gamers I know that have gaming collections worth more than $500 have stopped purchasing D&D books entirely.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The most frequently recommended gaming purchase to new gamers if the 3.5 PHB. That incredibly popular book is out of print.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">3.5 is far more popular than Pathfinder. People say the ship has sailed but most players I know haven't made the switch.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The players that play Encounters at the local comic store don't even tend to like 4E or the Encounters format. They tend to show up because they need a D&D fix and don't have time for anything else.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The WOTC staff is incredibly small. The release catalog looks very sparse. 3E saw a flurry of 1st and 3rd party books on just about anything. They weren't always good but apparently the demand was there.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">People I know tend to make their gaming purchases at used book stores and not the comic shop that sells new D&D products.</li> </ul>While I respect their attempt at moving forward, it really doesn't seem pragmatic for WOTC to release products that aren't 3.5 compatible. It makes sense that WOTC wants to attract a younger audience and boost revenue with D&D Insider but it just doesn't seem to be working. Paizo, meanwhile, seems to be flourishing using the old business model of printed products and a complicated and wonky rules system. But it really doesn't seem like Paizo has captured even half of the 3.5 market. I've read on these forums "These people won't be happy with WOTC unless they rerelease 3.5". Well...why don't they? All of my personal experience indicates that group of consumers that cling to an out of print game is larger than the 4E base and the 3.5 base. Gamers would swoon to a "D&D Classic Revival" campaign that would immediately revive WOTC's image. Players that switched over to PF could still buy new 3.5 products since they're compatible. They could have D&D Insider support 3.5 as well. We could see Dark Sun for 3.5. What's stopping them?</blockquote>

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