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Message: <blockquote data-quote="gizmo33" data-source="post: 4844685" data-attributes="member: 30001">Firstly - yes, this has gotten into a gray area.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  But I'll give it another shot and hope for good things.  The problem I have with this statement right away is that it basically misses 90% of the issue IMO.  First of all, dogs were not historically "poor man's animal companions".  Wiki them for any breed and you'll see examples of them being trained for specific functions.   Secondly, "trap-trigger" is not something that a creature needs to be statted for.  I would think this would be obvious based on the very concept of what a trap is supposed to do.  If not, I would ask the DM if he could stat my character so that he is NOT a trap trigger! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> The problem with "trap triggers" and things like that is not that it's not realistic.  (It's very realistic, as a canary would tell you if he could.)  It's simply that the DM doesn't like it because it doesn't fit the genre.  But the genre isn't realistic in this area either.  A PC with 100,000 gp decides to buy magic armor and sword because a +something to hit and AC is worth more and a private army, not because of reality or even the game mechanics, but because of DM fiat.  I'm not saying it's wrong for the DM to be this way, but I do think this sort of reasoning is applied inconsistently, and simulationist-minded players can often be understandably confused.  "Am I supposed to solve puzzles in creative ways using the elements in the game, or am I suppose to guess at what the DM wants me to do, and do that?"  I don't really follow this example.  The basic problem on the internet that I have all of the time is finding a rational basis to discuss the similarities and differences between two things.  It's not uncommon to see something like "A baseball is JUST LIKE an orange!"  In this case CueCat AFAICT is a niche product for a niche market in somewhat unique technology situation.  A dog is a 25,000 year old companion of human beings.  But then again maybe for purposes of this discussion CueCat and dogs (heh heh) are the same (and oranges for that matter).  I don't know.  In what ways does this fit the situation we're talking about?  Does the DM have a humane society in his world?  Does the DM have law-enforcement operating to *anywhere near* the capabilities of what you know IRL?  It should raise a red flag to you that you use the terms "illegal" and "economic model" in the same paragraph.  (My guess is that you are also a city-dweller.  Your assumptions about the sources of dogs, and people's attitude about their treatment do not reflect what I've observed even in the rural US.) I'll start with this: the "vanilla" DnD setting does not contain a strong and powerful police force.  The reason is obvious if you consider how the PCs spend their time.  Whether or not there is a "humane society" (say, a group of druids that objects to the use of dogs as meat shields) is somewhat outside of the situation.  You can equally rule that dogs are allergic to dungeon mold and simply die when they go underground.    And equally if I can eat an orange IRL, then my character should be able to consume and derive sustenance from a baseball in the game.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Obviously I'm not convinced that your analogies are good matches for the issue, but as you point out, this is a gray area.  As I discussed with another poster, if you want to establish a ceiling for how many dogs are in a give area, that's fine.  First, I'm not sure if that ceiling really solves the problem, and that's a point I've been unsuccessful in really communicating.  We're not talking about a million dogs, or even 100.  My feeling (so far not substantiated) is that it would actually take far less of the pooches to actually cause the DM heartburn.  I mean, how many traps are there really?  Count up the traps in the tomb of horrors, and then tell me that there aren't that many dogs around.  So IMO to accomplish what the PCs want, it's not like being described.  It's much easier, and requires a much less plausible response on the part of the DM.  In addition, PCs are much less housebound, and much more wealthy than you or I.  The differences between your analogy and the situation IMO are substantial. The "respect for the players" issue was a big part of why I started with this, so since we agree on that, I should be content.  Everything else is just the baseball-oranges situation, and if what I said isn't making the case I really don't know that I have anything else.</blockquote>

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