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Message: <blockquote data-quote="QuaziquestGM" data-source="post: 3332559" data-attributes="member: 22559">i tend to stay out of house rule debates, but I'm confused about something: Why does any one object to a high level fighter doing more damage than a fireball?  Are they doing the math right?  Are they counting the total damage done to all targets?Thought that this was the balance between fighters and wizards.  A fighter (high level) stands next to a guy and hits him 5 times with a sword and kills him.  Meanwhile the wizard blasts 1-however many are in the area of effect for 1/3 or more of their hp.  The wizard gets less damage, but spreads it among multiple targets.Also, the fighter has to beat AC.  The Wizard only has to beat reflex save.Another point, a fighter is a fighter at level 1 and is the same beast at level 25. Beat AC and take away HP from 5-10 ft away.  At higher levels a wizard has other options to kill or totally negate an opponent (or 6) with out doing any damage at all.  For example, in a recent epic game it wasn't unusual for the turn sequence to go like this.GM:  "The monsters are here."ME:  "I cast Gate.  Under those 4's Feet. to the elemental plane of.....oh....air. Move action, I hide behind the fighter and the monk."GM:  Jaw drops as my elc 22 gnome takes out 1/3 of the elc 26 monsters before the elc 25 melee types can use their massively overpowered gm disigned weapons of mass melee distruction. Stammers, looks at PHP spell discription, raises eyebows, "ok, the remaining monster charge" 5 min of dice rolling.John:  Power attacking.......( at this point i leave to get the pizza, and get back 45 min later to hear John's total damage for the round)Steve:  Flury of blows........( I go make the salad knowing that i'm not going to be needed for another 15 minutes. [steve is fast at math])ME:  Wall of stone gerrymandering around these 3.......1.5 hours laterME: summon monster, huge earth elemental...(roll) 3 of themNext round, John opens a fresh pad of paper, steve changes the battery in the calculatorMy earth elements earth glide though the wall of stone and attack and graple, I start summoning more of them.Next round.  Monk and fighter stand outside wall of stone as monster fight elementals.  Elementals earth glide them into the floor and leave them there. My elementals did maybe 220 points of direct damage before entombing the monsters.  The ones in the elemental plane of air are just floating there with no way of getting back. The melee guys did....oh a couple thousand points of damage each.  (this is a mostly true story with only slight exageration.  I left out the druid soloing the gaint undead ooze with wall of fire and sunburst on the other side of the room)My piont is, it isn't proper to base whether or not a melee ablity is broken by comparing it to a spell ability.  Melee ablites either do damage, stunning, or knock back/down. That is it.  Spells can do anything, and the effects are always circumstancial.This needs to be considered when deciding if or how a melee ability needs to be fixed or rebalanced.</blockquote>

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