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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6045098" data-attributes="member: 87792">OK.&nbsp; Let's reality check here.&nbsp; I just opened my 1e DMG to a random page.Seven&nbsp; monsters between pages 94 and 95.&nbsp; Thought Eaters, Ticks (Giant),&nbsp;&nbsp; Tigers, Titans, Titanothere, Toad (Giant), and Trappers (which go over&nbsp;&nbsp; onto the next page).&nbsp; Start with the most mythological.&nbsp; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_%28mythology%29" target="_blank">Titans</a>.&nbsp; Epic monsters out of Greek mythology that both birthed the Gods and that the Gods went to war against.Titans&nbsp;&nbsp; normally dwell on a plane somwehere above the material, but&nbsp;&nbsp; occasionally they will visit the lattter plane for various periods of&nbsp;&nbsp; time.&nbsp; Those dwelling on the Prime Material Plane for an extended period&nbsp;&nbsp; will acquire treasure as indicated above.

To determine the armour class and hit dice or any given titan simply roll a 6-sided die [Snip three lines of mechanics on hit dice and AC]

Titans can become invisible at will.&nbsp; They can also levitate&nbsp;&nbsp; and/or become etherial twice per day.&nbsp; All titans are able to employ&nbsp;&nbsp; both magic-user and clerical spells of 4th, 5th, 6th, or even 7th&nbsp;&nbsp; level.&nbsp; To determine how many levels of spell use [Snip eight more lines of mechanics just telling you how many spells Titans get]

All titans posess 8 or more pisionic abilities of the type possible for clerics.&nbsp; [Snip four and a half lines of mechanics on exact psionic powers]

In&nbsp; addition to their own language, titans are able to speak the six&nbsp;&nbsp; dialects of the races of the giants.&nbsp; All titans are also conversant in&nbsp;&nbsp; the common tongue as well as that of chaotic good.

Because of&nbsp; their particular predisposition, titans deal with storm&nbsp; giants on highly&nbsp; amicable terms.&nbsp; It is 20% probable that a storm giant&nbsp; will be with any&nbsp; single titan encountered.

Description:Titans&nbsp; appear very much as humans do, but they are&nbsp; all very muscular, handsome,&nbsp; and wear no facial hair.&nbsp; Their dress and&nbsp; armour appears Grecian.
Now I don't know about you, but I've read books on computer&nbsp; programming&nbsp; and maths text books that were more interesting than that.&nbsp;&nbsp; It certainly&nbsp; drips something - but the vibe it drips to me is&nbsp; &quot;Mechanics are all&nbsp; that matters and we don't need no stinking lore or&nbsp; flavour.&quot;&nbsp; And I&nbsp; think even most detractors of the 4e Monster Manual 1&nbsp; would say that&nbsp; it's better than that; after reading that I can't think&nbsp; of a single&nbsp; reason to use a Titan - and &quot;appear very much as humans do&quot;&nbsp; is not a&nbsp; workable description.&quot;Think that was unfair?&nbsp; Let's try&nbsp; another.&nbsp; A Titanothere.&nbsp; From the&nbsp; numerical block we can tell they are&nbsp; &quot;Size: L (8')&quot;.&nbsp; Which is,&nbsp; admittedly, better than 4e does.&nbsp; But we&nbsp; don't have a clue what colour&nbsp; it is - and the picture appears to be a&nbsp; coross between a rhino and some&nbsp; sort of wooly cow.These&nbsp; huge and fearless plant-eaters&nbsp; roam the temperate plains of the&nbsp; Pleistocene era in herds.&nbsp; If more&nbsp; than 6 total are encountered 1-4 of&nbsp; those numbering over one-half the&nbsp; possible total [What does this even mean?] will be young, from 10% to 80% grown.

If&nbsp; any creature threatens the herd, the largest animals (males) will&nbsp;&nbsp; charge.&nbsp; If the charge strikes home, damage inflicted is double the&nbsp;&nbsp; amount shown on the dice (4-32). Titanotheres will trample (2-12 per&nbsp;&nbsp; foot) any opponent low enough for them to step on. [Pity they are only 8' long and not very tall]
And that is it.&nbsp; That is the sum total of text presented for the Titanothere if we don't count things like the % in lair (nil).This is your shining example of the best monster manual ever?&nbsp; Seriously? And here I thought you were praising the 1e Monster Manual.Once more the 1e Monster Manual is the worst of all.The 4e Monster Manual 1 is a hell&nbsp; of a lot less dry than the&nbsp; passages I've quoted from the 1e&nbsp; monster manual.&nbsp; And as for Monster&nbsp; Vault, there really is no&nbsp; comparison; I believe that @pmerton thinks&nbsp; there's obnoxiously much&nbsp; fluff there.And to round things out,&nbsp; I'm going to quote the entire fluff text for&nbsp; &nbsp; Zombies from the 1e Monster&nbsp; Manual as @Pmerton has already linked the <a href="http://www.dotd.com/mm/MM00310.htm" target="_blank">2e zombie</a> and&nbsp;&nbsp; @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6701124" target="_blank">Cadence</a>&nbsp; has already linked the <a href="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ex/20080528b" target="_blank">4e Monster Manual Zombie</a>Zombies&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; are magically animated corpse, undead creatures under the command of&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; the evil magic users or clerics who animated them.&nbsp; These creatures&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; follow commands - as spoken on the spot or as given previously - of&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; limited length and complication (a dozen words or so).&nbsp; Zombies are&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; typically found ear graveyards, in dugeons, and in similar charnel&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; places.

Zombies are slow, always striking last, but always doing&nbsp; 1-8 hit points&nbsp; &nbsp; of damage when they hit.&nbsp; They always fight until&nbsp; destroyed and&nbsp; &nbsp; nothing short of a cleric can turn them back.

Sleep, charm, hold, and cold-based spells do not affect zombies.&nbsp; Holy water vials socre 2-8 hit points fo damage for each one that strikes.
I think as normal the 1e Monster Manual gets left in the dust.And&nbsp; for something genuinely evocative and that gives a lot of&nbsp; &nbsp; information&nbsp; we have Monster Vault. I'm just going to quote the&nbsp; &nbsp; introductory blurb&nbsp; and the first three sentences of each section&nbsp; &nbsp; because I can't be&nbsp; bothered to type too much more.Zombie
These mindless, shambling corpses murder anyone not swift enough to get away.

From&nbsp; somewhere in the darkness comes a thump and a scuffle.&nbsp; As the&nbsp; &nbsp; noise&nbsp; comes again, drawing closer, a gurgling moan can be heard -&nbsp; the&nbsp;&nbsp; rattling&nbsp; wheeze of rotten lungs pressing air out.&nbsp; A form lurches&nbsp;&nbsp; into&nbsp; view,&nbsp; dragging one foot as it raises bloated arms and broken&nbsp;&nbsp; hands like&nbsp; a&nbsp; child seeking an embrace.&nbsp; This creature is a zombie and&nbsp;&nbsp; it blindly&nbsp;&nbsp; seeks to crush life.

Many Hideous Forms: Fuelled by dark&nbsp; magic, malevolent forces,&nbsp; &nbsp; dire curses, or angry spirits, zombies are&nbsp; animate corpses.&nbsp; Any corpse&nbsp; &nbsp; with flesh suffices to make a zombie. [Paragraph and a half of ideas for zombie appearance snipped]

Shadows of Life:&nbsp; Zombies posess a semblance&nbsp; &nbsp; of life.&nbsp; Sludgelike blood trickles through&nbsp; their veins, and cold,&nbsp;&nbsp; rank&nbsp; breath gusts from their lungs.&nbsp; And yet&nbsp; death has rendered&nbsp;&nbsp; zombies&nbsp; immune to pain, disease, and poison. [Paragraph and a half on zombie metabolism and feeding habits snipped]

Soulless, Fearless, and Stupid:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; For a zombie to be animated, a body's spark must have departed.&nbsp;&nbsp; What&nbsp; &nbsp; remains in the corpse is an animus, a vital spark that drives&nbsp; the&nbsp; body&nbsp;&nbsp; without thought or consicence.&nbsp; Without a soul or memories, a&nbsp;&nbsp; zombie&nbsp; has&nbsp; no more intelligence than a simple animal.&nbsp; As a result&nbsp; it&nbsp; also&nbsp; lacks a&nbsp; sense of sel-preservation.&nbsp; Unless a zombie is&nbsp; properly&nbsp;&nbsp; commanded, a&nbsp; zombie might beat at the door of a home while&nbsp; ite&nbsp;&nbsp; residents escape out&nbsp; of a nearby window.&nbsp; [OK, so I&nbsp; overran that&nbsp;&nbsp; one.&nbsp; The second half&nbsp; of this section is about zombies&nbsp; resilience -&nbsp;&nbsp; and how that combines&nbsp; with their stupidity.]

A Terrifying Plague:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; In most cases, a zombie serves its creator or rises in response to&nbsp;&nbsp; the&nbsp;&nbsp; defilement of a sacred location.&nbsp; At rare times zombies arise in&nbsp;&nbsp; the&nbsp;&nbsp; hundreds.&nbsp; These zombie plagues are proved by cosmic, magical, or&nbsp;&nbsp; divine&nbsp;&nbsp; events. [Snip description of a Zombie Apocalypse plot]
Game, set, and match, I think.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I believe that matches all your criteria&nbsp; @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6701124" target="_blank">Cadence</a> ? Except how the&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; zombies attack, which is in their various stat blocks as a Hulking&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Zombie (large, slow, smashes opponents) attacks very differently from a&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Romero-style Flesh-Crazed Zombie or the grabby Grasping Zombie.&nbsp; And&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; then there are the legions of Zombie Shamblers.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6045098, member: 87792"] OK. Let's reality check here. I just opened my 1e DMG to a random page. Seven monsters between pages 94 and 95. Thought Eaters, Ticks (Giant), Tigers, Titans, Titanothere, Toad (Giant), and Trappers (which go over onto the next page). Start with the most mythological. [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_%28mythology%29"]Titans[/URL]. Epic monsters out of Greek mythology that both birthed the Gods and that the Gods went to war against.[INDENT]Titans normally dwell on a plane somwehere above the material, but occasionally they will visit the lattter plane for various periods of time. Those dwelling on the Prime Material Plane for an extended period will acquire treasure as indicated above. To determine the armour class and hit dice or any given titan simply roll a 6-sided die [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][Snip three lines of mechanics on hit dice and AC][/COLOR] Titans can become [I]invisible[/I] at will. They can also [I]levitate[/I] and/or become etherial twice per day. All titans are able to employ both magic-user and clerical spells of 4th, 5th, 6th, or even 7th level. To determine how many levels of spell use[COLOR=Blue] [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][Snip eight more lines of mechanics just telling you how many spells Titans get][/COLOR][/COLOR] All titans posess 8 or more pisionic abilities of the type possible for clerics. [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][Snip four and a half lines of mechanics on exact psionic powers][/COLOR] In addition to their own language, titans are able to speak the six dialects of the races of the giants. All titans are also conversant in the common tongue as well as that of chaotic good. Because of their particular predisposition, titans deal with storm giants on highly amicable terms. It is 20% probable that a storm giant will be with any single titan encountered. [I]Description:[/I]Titans appear very much as humans do, but they are all very muscular, handsome, and wear no facial hair. Their dress and armour appears Grecian. [/INDENT]Now I don't know about you, but I've read books on computer programming and maths text books that were more interesting than that. It certainly drips something - but the vibe it drips to me is "Mechanics are all that matters and we don't need no stinking lore or flavour." And I think even most detractors of the 4e Monster Manual 1 would say that it's better than that; after reading that I can't think of a single reason to use a Titan - and "appear very much as humans do" is not a workable description." Think that was unfair? Let's try another. A Titanothere. From the numerical block we can tell they are "Size: L (8')". Which is, admittedly, better than 4e does. But we don't have a clue what colour it is - and the picture appears to be a coross between a rhino and some sort of wooly cow.[INDENT]These huge and fearless plant-eaters roam the temperate plains of the Pleistocene era in herds. If more than 6 total are encountered 1-4 of those numbering over one-half the possible total [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][What does this even mean?][/COLOR] will be young, from 10% to 80% grown. If any creature threatens the herd, the largest animals (males) will charge. If the charge strikes home, damage inflicted is double the amount shown on the dice (4-32). Titanotheres will trample (2-12 per foot) any opponent low enough for them to step on. [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][Pity they are only 8' long and not very tall][/COLOR] [/INDENT]And that is [I]it[/I]. That is the sum total of text presented for the Titanothere if we don't count things like the % in lair (nil). This is your shining example of the best monster manual ever? Seriously? And here I thought you were praising the 1e Monster Manual. Once more the 1e Monster Manual is the worst of all. The 4e Monster Manual 1 is a hell of a lot [I]less[/I] dry than the passages I've quoted from the 1e monster manual. And as for Monster Vault, there really is no comparison; I believe that @pmerton thinks there's obnoxiously much fluff there. And to round things out, I'm going to quote the entire fluff text for Zombies from the 1e Monster Manual as @Pmerton has already linked the [URL="http://www.dotd.com/mm/MM00310.htm"]2e zombie[/URL] and @[U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6701124"]Cadence[/URL][/U] has already linked the [URL="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ex/20080528b"]4e Monster Manual Zombie[/URL][INDENT]Zombies are magically animated corpse, undead creatures under the command of the evil magic users or clerics who animated them. These creatures follow commands - as spoken on the spot or as given previously - of limited length and complication (a dozen words or so). Zombies are typically found ear graveyards, in dugeons, and in similar charnel places. Zombies are slow, always striking last, but always doing 1-8 hit points of damage when they hit. They always fight until destroyed and nothing short of a cleric can turn them back. [I]Sleep, charm, hold, [/I]and [I]cold-[/I]based spells do not affect zombies. Holy water vials socre 2-8 hit points fo damage for each one that strikes. [/INDENT]I think as normal the 1e Monster Manual gets left in the dust. And for something genuinely evocative and that gives a lot of information we have Monster Vault. I'm just going to quote the introductory blurb and the first three sentences of each section because I can't be bothered to type too much more.[INDENT][COLOR=Sienna][B][SIZE=4]Zombie[/SIZE] [/B][I]These mindless, shambling corpses murder anyone not swift enough to get away. [/I]From somewhere in the darkness comes a thump and a scuffle. As the noise comes again, drawing closer, a gurgling moan can be heard - the rattling wheeze of rotten lungs pressing air out. A form lurches into view, dragging one foot as it raises bloated arms and broken hands like a child seeking an embrace. This creature is a zombie and it blindly seeks to crush life.[/COLOR] [COLOR=Sienna][B]Many Hideous Forms:[/B] Fuelled by dark magic, malevolent forces, dire curses, or angry spirits, zombies are animate corpses. Any corpse with flesh suffices to make a zombie.[/COLOR] [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][Paragraph and a half of ideas for zombie appearance snipped] [COLOR=Sienna] [B]Shadows of Life:[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=Sienna] Zombies posess a semblance of life. Sludgelike blood trickles through their veins, and cold, rank breath gusts from their lungs. And yet death has rendered zombies immune to pain, disease, and poison. [/COLOR] [Paragraph and a half on zombie metabolism and feeding habits snipped] [COLOR=Sienna][B]Soulless, Fearless, and Stupid:[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=White][COLOR=Sienna] For a zombie to be animated, a body's spark must have departed. What remains in the corpse is an animus, a vital spark that drives the body without thought or consicence. Without a soul or memories, a zombie has no more intelligence than a simple animal. As a result it also lacks a sense of sel-preservation. Unless a zombie is properly commanded, a zombie might beat at the door of a home while ite residents escape out of a nearby window.[/COLOR] [/COLOR][OK, so I overran that one. The second half of this section is about zombies resilience - and how that combines with their stupidity.] [COLOR=Sienna][B]A Terrifying Plague:[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=White][COLOR=Sienna] In most cases, a zombie serves its creator or rises in response to the defilement of a sacred location. At rare times zombies arise in the hundreds. These zombie plagues are proved by cosmic, magical, or divine events.[/COLOR] [COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][Snip description of a Zombie Apocalypse plot] [/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR][/INDENT][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue][COLOR=White]Game, set, and match, I think.[/COLOR][/COLOR] I believe that matches all your criteria @[U][URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=6701124"]Cadence[/URL][/U] ? Except how the zombies attack, which is in their various stat blocks as a Hulking Zombie (large, slow, smashes opponents) attacks very differently from a Romero-style Flesh-Crazed Zombie or the grabby Grasping Zombie. And then there are the legions of Zombie Shamblers. [/QUOTE]

Verification