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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6045322" data-attributes="member: 87792">Thank you.  I'd wondered how to express this (and would XP you if I could).  Because although it's true that older editions have the mythological, if I want to play someone from Celtic Myth like <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C3%BA_Chulainn" target="_blank">Cu Chulainn</a> or one of the heroes of the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_Margin" target="_blank">Water Margin</a> in pre-4e I might as well go whistle with very few exceptions.  AD&D high level fighters may be quantitatively better than lower level ones but other than quite ridiculous endurance there is nothing they can do that lower level ones can't do in theory.In 4e you are playing a character that is part of those myths.  You probably won't be able to play Cu Chulainn before epic, but I wouldn't consider the way he approaches the world to be out of synch with a 4e character.When pre-4e is mythic it normally means "We have stats for Odin, for Zeus, for Osiris, and for a vast range of other mythologican figures".  Where 4e is mythic it normally means "The stories generated in 4e are very like those in myth with the main players being the PCs."  Very different approaches to mythology.To underline this, here are some selected sections from the 4e Monster Vault text (the MM1 doesn't have elementals mostly because previous versions of elementals were dull.)Description:It appears as a shard of raw elemental energy that threatens to break apart at any moment. Now I don't know about you, but to me that line alone tells me everything the picture does not.  It ells me how they move.Motivation:Creatures of Destruction: With nothing to goven their actions, elementals act randomly, burning tearing, or smashing whatever they come across. ... Elementals are sometimes captured and bound into service, allowing a spellcaster to funnel their elemental energy into spells or devices.  Attempts to control elementals ofen end in disaster when the binder loses control allowing the elemental to run amok. Invaders from the Elemental Chaos: An elemental that is not summoned might enter the world through a planar event ... If a settlement is near the location of such an event, [things are going to get messy with a description of how] ... Weapons of Primordial Power: ... Regardlessof whether the speculation of scholars true, elementals seem built to be weapons and tools.  They lack intelligence and ambition making thm the perfect servants of those who want to act without secrecy and without fear of betrayal. Well, that's how and why to use them - wandering monsters and bound servants.  Beats the hell out of anything 2e offered above.  But what if we want to kick it up a gear?Weapons of Primordial Power: Some scholars believe that elementals, belying their chaotic nature, act under the guidance of higher powersw.  These sages assert that the primordials, the undisputed masters of elemental power, use elementals as tools in the world because they are unable to act from their prsions.  Aln elemental attack on a distant outpost might seem like an isolated occurrance until someone realises that each outpost along the border has suffered a simmilar attack.  Perhaps the realm contains an ancient secret to help free one of the primorials, or perhaps it is a baeacon of light and order in an otherwise dark and chaotic world.  Alternatively, a spellcaster might find the summoning and binding of many powerful elementals to be a simple task, only to discover that the elementals allowed themselves to be bound in order to escape and sabotage a planar ritual, throwing open a portal to the Elemental Chaos. And there's our campaign if we want it.  It doesn't have to be true.  But those earth elementals?  Pointers to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imix_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29" target="_blank">Ogremoch</a>.  Or the fire elementals?  Signs <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imix_%28Dungeons_%26_Dragons%29" target="_blank">Imix</a> is getting restless.  Want to mix and match?  Both Ogremoch and Imix believe they serve the first Primordial, the Elder Elemental Eye - which is, in fact, the Chained God <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tharizdun" target="_blank">Tharizdun</a>.  And there you have your metaplot if you want it (this is all 4e canon cosmology).  If you don't, it can still be happening anyway.  Or not.Anyone still prepared to claim that the 2e fluff is more inspiring? Now let's kick it up a notch.  4e Monster Vault.Giant These massive humaoids once ruled the world beside the primordials.  Now they dominate petty kingdoms and crusy any who oppose their tyrannical reign. Shortly after the world emerged from the smoldering forges of the primordials, titans stepped forth to help explore and shape the new creation.  They walked atop the world's still-cooling crust and swam through its churning seas, yet even in their immensity, the titans were too few to explore the vast world.  They created giants as a servant race, modeling them to resemble the titans' own elemental natures.  With the aid of the giants, the titans spread out across the world.  In time the giants enslaved some of the neascent races of the gods, most notably the dwarves.  Under the giants' steady gazes and heavy hands, these industrious slaves brought beauty and refinement to the world. A Shattered Legacy: ... The blow that finally crippled the giants came from a source the creatures never predicted.  The dwarves, who had maintained their secret devotion to Moradin for many years, rose up agianst their masters, unleashing the fury of a hundred generations of repression. The giants and titans still covet the power they once posessed, and they have never forgiven the dwarves' betrayal. Born from Furor: Giants stride about the planes, crafting castles in the highest cloouds and building citadels in the darkest stretches of the Underdark.  The most common types of giants in the world are hill giants, fire giants, and frost giants. ... Titanic Leaders: Titans believe themselves to be the firstborn of creation, and they seek to emulate their primordial creators.  They shape imitations of the world from the raw pieces of the Elemental Chaos.  Unlike efreets they do not try to impose order on the regions they control.  Instead the titans revel in the entropic jumble of elemental forces. A titan realm might contain places where the Elemental Chaos erupts into the world, spilling into the heart of an active volcano, into the midst of a permanent storm, or into the deepest reaches of a frozen wasteland.  In the world, these areas are usually populated by giants.  Through these natural planar connections, giants and titans can wreak havoc upon nearby realms, conquering vast tracts of land until someone stops them by closing the portal or slaying their chief. Now that's mythic.  And it's mythic in a way that says the myths are still being written. Both myths of Ragnarok and myths like Jack and the Beanstalk.And throwing up absolutely nothing to support yours doesn't even come close to making it so.</blockquote>

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