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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6050048" data-attributes="member: 87792">And this brings me onto a pet rant.The lair probabilities are all very well for wild animals - but if we're dealing with humans, orcs, goblins, and the like, they are useless if not worse.  I want to find out what that particular society is doing - generic humans do not all have the same %lair chance.  And Number Appearing: "Dictated by Owner" is about right - this is wasted space.  And I don't need <a href="http://www.kenzerco.com/free_files/owlbeast.pdf" target="_blank">seven pages of text on owlbears</a> - at that point I start thinking the designers are paid by the word and have decided to pad everything out.  Not that I dislike everything about the Hacklopaedia - the size comparison, the weight, and for a setting-specific monster, the map are all very good.And that's a lot of fluff.  Four pages for dogs - with the Dog Pack Mauling Rules copied and pasted below.Dog Pack Mauling Rules: Any attack by a dog that exceeds the defender’s roll by 5 or more indicates that the dog has not only injured its victim for standard damage, but that it also grabbed one of the defender’s limbs. Roll randomly to determine which arm or leg the dog latched onto. However, the following caveat applies: if the shield arm is indicated, reroll the result. A second consecutive result of this limb indicates that the shield arm has indeed been grabbed and it is, along with and defensive benefits provided by the shield, useless until freed. Once having grabbed on to an opponent, the canine will pull and tug inflicting d4p damage every 10 seconds (no Defense roll allowed nor Attack roll required though armor DR applies). Further, the defender suffers a 2- point penalty to all rolls and cannot use the ensnared limb for any action other than spending 5 seconds attempting to free it of the canine’s hold (requiring a Feat of Strength vs. d20p+8). If a leg has been grabbed, the victim cannot move at more than a crawling pace while he drags the dog behind him. If the dog’s jaws hold a weapon arm, attack is impossible and any defensive bonuses gained from weapon skill are forfeited. (Note though that the weapon is rarely dropped – a successful Feat of Strength vs. d20p+3 retains control of any held weapon). A dog that has grabbed a character may also be compelled to loosen its grip via a successful knock-back or by inflicting sufficient damage to cause a Threshold of Pain check. A single dog provides little more than a nuisance, particularly to armored characters, either slowing down an intruder (when the leg is grabbed) or hindering his attacks or defense (an arm grab). Far more frightening, however, is when a pack of dogs works in concert to pull down a victim. A second dog that successfully grabs the same defender saddles the victim with a 6-point penalty to all rolls and two limbs are now incapacitated. Thereafter, any successful attack by an additional dog will knock Small creatures prone, an attack of 5 or more in excess of that required to hit will knock a Medium creature prone and 10 or more will knock a Large creature prone. Even if its quarry is not knocked prone, a successful attack by a third dog will automatically grab hold. When held by three dogs, an attack by a fourth reduces the defender’s effective size by one category if a fourth dog attacks, and so on. Any prey knocked prone will be viciously mauled by all nearby dogs, who bite with bonuses of +2 to Speed and +6 to Attack, although it is 50% likely that each limb will be freed as the dogs will be more concerned with mauling than tugging. Gurgle.  By my count that literally took fifty lines of almost solid text (I counted) in the Hacklopaedia for a complex effect that takes several times to read through.  This isn't a case of "masterful miscellaneous rules" - by the standard of the 4e monster manuals calling them "amateurish miscallaneous rules" would be flattering.For comparison, taken from the Dire Wolf statblock in MV:Traits Pack Harrier The wolf has combat advantage against any enemy that is adjacent to two or more of the wolf's allies ... Bite * At Will Attack: Melee 1 (one creature): +10 vs AC Hit: 2d8+4 damage, or 3d8+4 against a prone target.  The target falls prone if the wolf has combat advantage against it. The end result is that like those dogs you praise, 4e dire wolves team up in groups of three or more, bring the enemy to the ground, and then tear them apart once they have fallen.  This takes no additional rolls, no complex modifiers, and has the wolves behaving properly.  And took four lines added*, including a header - or a tenth of the space.  We could get the grab (as an encounter power) in in another three lines (again, including another line) if we really want to - and ongoing damage is a standard effect in 4e.Simple, clean, effective, and takes around a tenth of the space of what you consider "masterful mechanical touches".  And it doesn't stand out because literally all 4e monsters have this sort of deft touch to encourage them to behave the way they should. From the look of it, the Hacklopaedia is effectively a deluxe version of the 2e Monstrous Manual - it does everything done by 2e, but moreso.  And that Kenzer themselves choose to <a href="http://www.kenzerco.com/product_info.php?products_id=751" target="_blank">highlight the 'innovative dog pack mauling rules'</a> has just completely unsold me on getting a system I'd been considering taking a look at.* Three lines of Pack Harrier including the header, and a line's worth of text added to their normal Bite attack to get the prone and extra damage</blockquote>

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