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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6051650" data-attributes="member: 87792">Doh!  I even found that out when re-reading the entry but my fault, sorry.  And yes, I think 4e combined the Duegar and Derro.  And as I said, don't ask me about the beard-quills.  It's goofy, silly, and not even in a good way.  My big problem with the 2e Derro is my common problem with the 2e Monstrous Manual.  It implies a lot more strongly than 4e that all Derro are alike - this is particularly brought out by the Number Appearing of Duegar; "2-9 or 201-300".  Wait, what?  What happens when I have a couple of dozen Duegar?  They have to split into three groups?  (It gets worse when it says "If a band of nine are encountered outside a lair, there will be a tenth".) The Derro Lair entry is just as bad "Derro lairs always have 3d4+30 normal derro, plus leaders."  Really?  So there are always between 33 and 42 Derro based in a lair?  Is this something mystical?  What happens when Mind Flayers or even adventurers have attacked the Derro?  "Help, we're down to 32 of us.  Give birth fast or we have to abandon the lair?"  And Duegar never form societies that would be anything bigger than a hamlet even when you count the 15-40 human slaves?  Makes me wonder how they have their wars in the underdark. <a href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats" target="_blank">Planets of the hats</a> (TVTropes link) have nothing on the 2e Monstrous Manual.  And this is why I find the habitat/society section of the 2e Monstrous Manual has an actively negative value much of the time and the Number Appearing is worse.  <a href="http://www.dotd.com/mm/MM00097.htm" target="_blank">Drow</a> - Number appearing: 50.  (On the nail).  So Drow never send small scouting parties?  Or spies?  And Drow can't ever mass an army of a thousand or more?  Bwuh? Yes, I know you should ignore all the bad fluff in the 2e Monstrous Manual.  But it's hardly a good reflection on that book that you almost have to ignore chunks of fluff to make it useable.  Like the <a href="http://www.dotd.com/mm/MM00179.htm" target="_blank">Kuo-toan</a> gem "If more than 20 kuo-toa are encountered, it is 50% likely that they are within 1d6 miles of their lair." - I'm pretty sure causation doesn't work that way round.For that matter, every Kuo-Toan lair could have come from Central Casting.If a kuo-toan lair is found, it contains 4d10 x 10 2nd-level males. In addition, there are higher level fighters in the same ratio as noted for wandering groups. The leader of the group is one of the following, depending on the lair's population: A priest/thief king of 12/14th level, if 350 or more normal kuo-toa are present, or A priest/thief prince of 11/13th level, if 275-349 normal kuo-toa are present, or A priest/thief duke of 10/12th level, if fewer than 275 normal kuo-toa are present There are also the following additional kuo-toa in the lair: Eight Eyes of the priest leader -- 6th- to 8th-level priest/thieves One Chief Whip -- 6th/6th-level fighter/thief Two Whips of 4th/4th or 5th/5th level (see whip description) One Monitor per 20 2nd-level kuo-toa Females equal to 20% of the male population Young (noncombatant) equal to 20% of the total kuo-toa Slaves equal to 50% of the total male population  So let me get this straight.  Every Kuo-toa settlement is structured exactly the same way.  For that matter every Kuo-toa raiding party is structured exactly the same way no matter whether they are going to hunt slaves or going to war.</blockquote>

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