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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 5576072" data-attributes="member: 7006">I'm right there with you in thinking that ones invalidates the other.  There's no reason to take the lesser feat at all, I agree.What I don't agree with (and which was the point several people tried to make earlier that I countered) was that the better feat was less "flavorful" because it applied to everything, rather than the lesser feat which only applied to a smaller part of the mechanics.  Thus the excuse was their character was less flavorful since logic dictated they had to take the greater one over the other.  And my point has always been a +1 is a +1, regardless of how many extra things you get by taking the better feat.  If you have a +8 attack bonus to charm spells via Expertise or a +8 attack bonus via Feyborn Charm... you are just as much of a fey charmer either way.  So the existence of the Expertise feat in the game did not worsen or lessen the fluff of your character.EDIT: and if you take Expertise over a feat which does not produce bonuses to your attack rolls... you are making the choice to put Hit over whatever theoretical fluff the other feat would gain you.  And that is not WotC's fault that you can't get past the idea that the math has to be a "certain way" or else the game is going to fall apart.  Because like I said earlier... you can get attack bonuses that cover the points you would have gotten from Expertise... you just have to make decisions on how to accomplish it.</blockquote>

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