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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5580568" data-attributes="member: 61155">I'm someone who is of the opinion that you certainly don't need Expertise to have a good hit chance at Epic levels. And yet, that doesn't mean the bonus is ignoreable. A well-built character with all those benefits isn't guaranteed to be hitting on a 2+ all the time. Against a DM who is presenting appropriate encounters, I'm guessing that player typically hits on an 8+ or so, and might get that down to a 5+ when everything lines up.  Expertise kicks that all the way down to a 2+, a very good place to be in. Especially since that well-built character also likely has access to rerolls, which become more effective the better your hit chance is.  If you are in a game where you have enough bonuses that a +3 bonus to hit from a single feat is irrelevant... there may already be a problem at hand, namely the DM not presenting appropriate challenges. I certainly don't believe Expertise is needed to stay viable at Epic levels, but I also don't think your average character - even your average optimized character - will automatically find all encounters trivial, either.  Finally, even if you have stacked the deck so you hit reasonably often... Expertise is still there, making other feats look bad. Why take an Epic feat that gives a conditional +2 bonus to hit when you do something iconic and character defining... when you can instead take a +3 bonus to hit all the time?  I'm sorry, but arguing that +3 to hit is irrelevant, at any level in the game, is simply wrong.</blockquote>

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