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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nonlethal Force" data-source="post: 3070225" data-attributes="member: 35788">That's fair.  As long as a player "shuts up and plays" after logging an inital complaint, that's cool.  We all have differing opinions.  So long as the players understand that in the end the DMs method wins.I think this is a hard point for the point-buyers to argue - and I am a point buyer.  Look at a game with point buy and the vast majority will have all even stats and descending order or importance.  Of course there are a few exceptions - the dwarven cleric with an abysmal charisma being one of my favorite!  But for the most part point buy methods lean to cookie cutter characters.  But ... see my next comment.I do not think the system is what is to blame.  Take driving a porsche in the middle of Montana or some other flat area where you can see for what seems like hundereds of miles.  The gas pedal is right under your feet, there isn't a soul on the road ... do you end up going 140 mph just to see what it feels like?  If you don't it isn't the car's fault.  If you do, it isn't the cars fault.  The human mind is what's to blame.3.0 and 3.5 make no such advances.  I've read through plenty of books and I don't recall seeing a paragraph on planning your character out to even the next level.  Sure, they do suggest that you have a concept in mind and you make wise choices to allow the future to have possibilities.  But that just makes sense.Likewise with cookie cutter characters.  Point Buy may lean towards cookie cutter characters, but that isn't the fault of the system, its the fault of the human mind making the character.  Don't crucify a good system because we play with greedy, selfish minds!Personally, I feel that character generation is like Roleplaying.  It is a process that needs to be taught to be done well.  People who take out their first character ever want everything to go perfectly because it's their fantasy!  But after you've played 10 fantasies you realize that being perfect isn't what it is all cracked up to be.  What does Agent Smith say to Morpheus in the original Matrix?  Something along the lines of the fact that Human beings define their existance in misery, living in it, and struggling to overcome it.  [That's the gist, not an actual quote]  Learning to want to play characters with flaws needs to be taught!I don't need randomly rolled dice to force me to learn how to play a character with a flaw.  I use point buy method all the time and play characters with even two stats at an 8 just because it demonstrates their imperfection - or lack of skill.  I don't need a set of dice to force me to do that.ULTIMATE POINT FOR THOSE WHO QUIT READING!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> The system is only a system.  Both rolling and point buy are valid and can be used to create fun, balanced characters.  Our arguments should not be based on exalting one system over the other, it should be looking upon those who manipulate the system with criticism!</blockquote>

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