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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Orcus" data-source="post: 2984219" data-attributes="member: 1254">Hi everyone!I love the passion, keep it up!Danny, if you havent heard of RA you gotta check it out. You will love it.Barak and Co you bring up some good points. "most famous" caused you problems and i get that. from pure sales numbers, has undermountain sold more, sure. but i was talking about "famous" as far as reputation in the industry. Erik Mona knows it. Monte knows it. Heck, Mike Mearls even chimed in earlier in this thread. This dungeon has a reputation. And it is probably the best example of a hard core first edition dungeon that has ever been produced. So I stand by that statement. But if you mean famous by "greatest number of purchasers familiar with it," then no, it isnt the most famous. but that isnt what i am saying. i am talking reputation in the industry. And RA more than delivers on that claim. As for Tomb of Horrors and GH Dungeon, I have a specific take on those. Tomb is the greatest module ever produced, but I dont really think of that as a "dungeon." It is a very specific and rather short tomb. It isnt a dungeon crawl, it is a death trap. So I dont actually consider ToH as in the same group. Ane believe me, I love ToH. I was one of the "Industry Experts" that was involved in ranking the greatest modules of all time for Dungeon Magazine (based, in all honesty, in large part on the fact that we did Rappan Athuk), I picked ToA as #1 and in fact it was selected as #1. Nothing, in my mind, beats TOH.As for the GH dungeon, I agree that that dungeon, in theory, is the most famous. It is the first. BUT I am talking about published products. In my view, that dungeon has yet to be published. Sure, TSR did a joke module that Gary disavowed. And years later did the three towers of castle greyhawk. But I dont think either of those were actually Gary's Castle GH dungeon. The day Gary ever actually publishes it in its real original form, I will happily hand over the "most famous" crown to that. No doubt about it. And I dont mean the Yggsburgh thing he is doing with TLG. I mean the real actual first dungeon. That is more famous.But I didnt say just famous, I said "famous and feared." That is why Undermountain is out. Sure it might be famous for its size and scope, like WLD, but it doesnt inspire the sheer terror that RA does. I've never heard a player say "no freaking way, we arent going in THERE!" or "Oh s----, not again, I dont want to go back in there!" They say that about RA, which is why it is the most famous and feared.That's just my take. Your mileage may vary. It is not overblown hype, I fully believe it and stand by it. If you get it, I hope you love it. But I dont want a great product to cause division. I will say this, though. Even if you love "roleplaying" over dungeon crawling, that doesnt mean you should avoid RA. Think about it this way: a dungeon is an epic setting with great challenges. Great roleplaying needs that. We dont play "advertisements and accountants" we play "dungeons and dragons." You dont rescue Suzie from the mean paperboy at the corner store. You retrieve the staff of death from the tower of doom guarded by Dragotha. YOu need a setting like RA. Or, think of it in movie terms. How about the movie Star Wars. Luke and Co didnt rescue Leia from Godo the silly Ewok, they went to the freaking Death Star and rescued her from Darth Vader, the evil cleric dressed in all black plate. Think of RA as the Death Star. The story you decide to tell in the death star is your decision. If Necro were to do the death star dungeon, we would provide maps of all levels and a list of all monsters and their motivations, just like RA. we'd list vader (the evil high priest), we would note that there was a room that contained a captured princess. Now if you, using that product, just decide to send your PCs to the death star to kick in doors one by one, that is your choice. That is not the death star's fault. But if you send your PCs to break into the death star to rescue the princess and escape the clutches of the evil high priest, that is also your choice and can be full of great roleplaying. The product is there for you to use. And the fact that you dont want to dungeon crawl doesnt mean you cant use it. In fact, because of its epic nature, it is great for roleplaying. If you decide to use RA just as a mindless door kick in treasure hunt, that is your choice. But that isnt RA's fault. You could just as easily use it as a very focused quest location with very specific story elements. Back to the death star example, if you bought the "death star dungeon" the fact that you dont play out the great adventure that is star wars is not the dungeon's fault. that is a DM choice. Lots of lazy DMs just do door kicking and treasure looting. Now that has its fun and appeal (by the way, I am not sayiing dungeon crawling is from lazy DMs, i love dungeon crawling and so do my players, i mean it is lazy to think that the only use for a dungeon is dungeon crawling, because it isnt; so no hate email from dungeon crawling DMs please <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> ). But there is no reason you couldnt, instead, use it for epic heroic and deep roleplaying. Just a few thoughts <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Clark</blockquote>

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