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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Greenfield" data-source="post: 6238841" data-attributes="member: 6669384">Agreed, it has a lot of "trap" aspects, but calculating the CR of a trap in these unusual circumstances is just as bad as calculating the CR of the giant.As for why we didn't just avoid him...There were two of them, acting as bodyguards/thugs for an Efreeti.  Yeah, CR 10s working for a CR 8.  Still, it's the story, and I didn't write it.Our goal was to take on the Efreeti and take him to the Caliph in the City of Brass.  The Caliph was hoping the Efreeti would be killed, we (for alignment reasons) were trying to take him alive.They'd appeared near us, having become aware that we were looking for him.We could have fled and simply waited for the AMFs to go down.  And as soon as their advantage had run out, they would have left as well.  This fight had to happen in some form, and all we would have accomplished with a retreat would have been to delay the encounter.  (You have to know our DM to be able to see that coming, so I'll just ask you to trust me on it.)The AMFs came up under Contingencyas soon as a Fire Giant attacked.This, by the way, implies an 18th level caster someplace in the wings, since Contingency allows up to 6th level spells (Like AMF), but the spell can't be higher than 1/3 the caster's level.Over all it was a brute fight, with the Efreeti fighting like he was brain-dead.  No tactics, no use of any of his special abilities, not even bright enough to use his superior movement to avoid flanks.  Efreeti have perfect flight of 40.  PCs, in a relational-gravity realm like the Plane of Fire move based on their Intelligence or Will.  Some of our casters could match him, but none of the fighter types could.  There is no way he should have stayed around long enough for us to drop him the way we did.In any case, while the situation may be interesting and the tactics questionable, the event is past and the tactics were what they were.  The topic now is, what CR should such a Fire Giant be, in that situation?Note:  Give him Improved Grab and he pretty much auto-kills any single humanoid opponent.  He grabs at +29 (+25 right out of the book, +4 for the Feat), and then just hangs on while his opponent takes his hand-to-hand plus 5 D6 fire damage every round.  The environment kills PCs if they don't have magical protections in place.</blockquote>

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