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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 8753112" data-attributes="member: 7023840">Well, this requires me to write more .... I know, shocker.D&D originally was supposed to have players declare their actions, vis-a-vis the rules, from behind the veil of ignorance (my apologies to Rawls for misappropriation). In other words, players were not supposed to know what the rules (if any) were. This was a constant theme from the LBBs through and including Gygax's admonition in the DMG that only DMs were allowed to read it. Of course, this was rarely (if ever) followed in practice, and in a game as rule-bound as D&D (and certainly AD&D) is, it is difficult to imagine many table with that fictional idea of player ignorance continuing. This idea was so ... idiotic ... that it was already being mocked in Dragon #10 (1977), which included random monsters because players knew all the rules and with random monsters, "No rules cover it, so {the Players} have to find out the hard way what {the monster} is like." As a general concept, players in D&D ... like to learn the rules. Not all of them. Not all of the time. But generally. So this really comes down to ... what are you trying to do with the new player? Are you trying to teach the new player the rules of 5e, or are you trying to enable to the new player to simply play the game.And here is where I think [USER=6696971]@Manbearcat[/USER] and his concepts from earlier are helpful-* game logic <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">drama logic</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">genre tropes</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">internal causality</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">social contract</li> </ul>Normally, the middle three are incredible important for adjudication. But when it comes to a new player, it's really about (1) game logic and (5) social contract. If it was a new player in one of my ongoing games with regulars, I would look to compelling gameplay and the social contract with the group that we play a game that is more beholden to genre topes and drama logic than to rules. However, if I was teaching a bunch of new players how to play 5e specifically, I would feel a stronger need to, at a minimum, teach the game closer to "by the book," (social contract to teach them "how must people play," with attention to "game engine sensitivities" while trying to interpret their action declaration in a positive way).</blockquote>

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