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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Voadam" data-source="post: 8754414" data-attributes="member: 2209">I think 4e had a different, fairly well communicated baseline of action movie logic and using skills to accomplish increasingly epic things. It also explicitly said in the Heroes of the Fallen Kingdoms that for the Arcana skill "A character can sometimes use his or her knowledge of magic to interact with or manipulate magical phenomena."I think it is reasonable to treat a skill description with that explicit magical ability as different from a straight knowledge skill without that type of explicit ability.It also explicitly allowed those with training to sense for magic with a check. This would detect stuff within 5 squares of the PC +1 square per level, and does not require line of sight and is not blocked by any barrier and gives you the direction of the magic.4e also gave some improvising guidelines:IMPROVISING WITH ARCANA✦ Change the visible or audible qualities of one’s magical powers when usingthem (moderate DC)✦ Control a phenomenon by manipulating its magical energy (hard DC)✦ Contribute to a negotiation with an elemental, fey, or shadow creature byexploiting knowledge of its behavior or culture (hard DC)I used the arcana skill in 4e a number of times as a player to interact with magical stuff in different ways.In contrast the description of religion skill in 4e does not have a similar ability called out in the description or in the sample improvisations, it is treated like the general knowledge skill abilities as knowledge type stuff.IMPROVISING WITH RELIGION✦ Craft a simple nonmagical holy symbol or other sacred object (moderateDC)✦ Preside over a known religious ceremony (moderate DC)✦ Soothe grief-stricken or panicked peasants by chanting a hymn (hard DC)5e Arcana does not say it gives you the same stuff as 4e arcana did, it just says the knowledges parts.Arcana. Your Intelligence (Arcana) check measures your ability to recall lore about spells, magic items, eldritch symbols, magical traditions, the planes of existence, and the inhabitants of those planes.5e religion skill from the PH says:Religion. Your Intelligence (Religion) check measures your ability to recall lore about deities, rites and prayers, religious hierarchies, holy symbols, and the practices of secret cults.Medicine says:Medicine. A Wisdom (Medicine) check lets you try to stabilize a dying companion or diagnose an illness.For the improv comparison it says:Other Intelligence Checks. The DM might call for an Intelligence check when you try to accomplish tasks like the following:• Communicate with a creature without using words• Estimate the value of a precious item• Pull together a disguise to pass as a city guard• Forge a document• Recall lore about a craft or trade• Win a game of skillOther Wisdom Checks. The DM might call for a Wisdom check when you try to accomplish tasks like the following:• Get a gut feeling about what course of action to follow• Discern whether a seemingly dead or living creature is undeadOther Wisdom Checks. The DM might call for a Wisdom check when you try to accomplish tasks like the following:• Get a gut feeling about what course of action to follow• Discern whether a seemingly dead or living creature is undeadOther Charisma Checks. The DM might call for a Charisma check when you try to accomplish tasks like the following:• Find the best person to talk to for news, rumors, and gossip• Blend into a crowd to get the sense of key topics of conversationFor 5e a prayer to get the gods as supernatural beings to do something sounds to me like it probably best fits under Charisma checks.Charisma measures your ability to interact effectively with others. It includes such factors as confidence and eloquence, and it can represent a charming or commanding personality.A Charisma check might arise when you try to influence or entertain others, when you try to make an impression or tell a convincing lie, or when you are navigating a tricky social situation. The Deception, Intimidation, Performance, and Persuasion skills reflect aptitude in certain kinds of Charisma checks.Persuasion. When you attempt to influence someone or a group of people with tact, social graces, or good nature, the DM might ask you to make a Charisma (Persuasion) check. Typically, you use persuasion when acting in good faith, to foster friendships, make cordial requests, or exhibit proper etiquette. Examples of persuading others include convincing a chamberlain to let your party see the king, negotiating peace between warring tribes, or inspiring a crowd of townsfolk.Alternatively if you were trying to follow the right forms for traditional prayers to get a god transaction then using the normal int (religion) check for knowing the actual right forms of prayer seems appropriate.While I agree that something could happen, I think the default baseline is still that nothing happens with heartfelt prayer alone.</blockquote>

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