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What's the DC for a fighter to heal their ally with a prayer?
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<blockquote data-quote="Voadam" data-source="post: 8756145" data-attributes="member: 2209"><p>Some feel its inauthentic and trying to cheat the system. I generally feel its a fine approach. Whatcha gonna do? <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="🤷♂️" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f937-2642.png" title="Man shrugging :man_shrugging:" data-shortname=":man_shrugging:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" /></p><p></p><p>Yet you presented that as the binary options. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Disallowing anything happening in response to the prayer is easy. Allowing it opens up all sorts of nonbinary options of how to resolve the attempt, to what effect (stabilizing, a couple hp, a full heal), what cost, is it repeatable, who answers, how does it manifest.</p><p></p><p>I am saying there are multiple valid options that lead to different game experiences that can be fun game experiences. I am not advocating that any of them is the way things should be. I am against one true wayism.</p><p></p><p>I have my preferred option which I stated in my first response in this thread, but I think others are reasonable and can be within the normal parameters of the freedom that D&D gives on how D&D worlds work.</p><p></p><p>I see it much more as the game is pretty open and does not preclude it as an option. I think the specific mechanics are the things called out by the game. Even in 4e. 4e just has more open ended mechanics like their version of the arcana skill.</p><p></p><p>Because I believe we are talking about D&D and D&D is open to a lot of options that involve a lot of consideration. Again I am not advocating that one way is best. I legitimately feel there are multiple fun valid different ways to approach this stuff in the game.</p><p></p><p>I have not gotten the same impression of Eberron stuff that you have.</p><p></p><p>Eberron clerics seem to be a magical spellcasting tradition that taps divine power. I don't read it as belief powering clerics.</p><p></p><p>From the 3.5<a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/28474/Eberron-Campaign-Setting-3e?affiliate_id=17596" target="_blank"> Eberron Campaign Setting</a> book pages 34-35 on clerics as a class.</p><p></p><p>"Other clerics across Eberron serve no church and claim no allegiance to any deity. They recognize the power of the deities, but not their authority over mortal life. They hold principles of alignment or other abstract ideals higher than the deities who claim these ideals in their portfolios, and <strong>they draw divine power from the pervasive spiritual force in the world</strong> instead of channeling it through deities. These clerics are usually outcasts and loners, but the reality of their power is impossible to deny, and it lends credence to their unorthodox theology."</p><p></p><p>I don't take that as belief powering divine magic here, rather just not getting power from a god.</p><p></p><p>I don't expect Eberron non-clerics to pray and get cleric equivalent magical effects. Do you know of examples where people with straight up faith do stuff without say the trained spellcasting tradition of clerics or a specific feat? Clerics can clearly believe most anything and still do cleric stuff, but that seems more consistent with the class and not the belief being the operating factor.</p><p></p><p>Also there is the whole discussion about corrupt clerics keeping their powers on pages 35-36.</p><p></p><p>"A cleric who violates the tenets of her church or deity might risk punishment at the hands of the church (though not necessarily, particularly in regions where the church is very corrupt), but risks no loss of spells or class features and need not atone. This rule supersedes the information under Ex-Clerics on page 33 of the Player’s Handbook."</p><p></p><p>This seems to suggest that clerics who don't believe but are putting on a mummery of faith would still cast clerical magic.</p><p></p><p>I do like that <a href="https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/51636/Faiths-of-Eberron-35?affiliate_id=17596" target="_blank">Faiths of Eberron</a> says up front that "This book presents religious information through the eyes of believers, often stating as fact events that more properly belong in myth or legend."</p><p></p><p>I have not read a ton of Eberron. I have skimmed a bunch and like a lot of it, and played in the setting and adopted a bunch of elements into my homebrew setting, but most of my knowledge is high vantage point stuff. The stuff I have read though gives me a different sense than you seem to have on belief and magical effects in the system.</p><p></p><p>I am open to seeing specifics that point a different direction though if you can point them out.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Voadam, post: 8756145, member: 2209"] Some feel its inauthentic and trying to cheat the system. I generally feel its a fine approach. Whatcha gonna do? 🤷♂️ Yet you presented that as the binary options. :) Disallowing anything happening in response to the prayer is easy. Allowing it opens up all sorts of nonbinary options of how to resolve the attempt, to what effect (stabilizing, a couple hp, a full heal), what cost, is it repeatable, who answers, how does it manifest. I am saying there are multiple valid options that lead to different game experiences that can be fun game experiences. I am not advocating that any of them is the way things should be. I am against one true wayism. I have my preferred option which I stated in my first response in this thread, but I think others are reasonable and can be within the normal parameters of the freedom that D&D gives on how D&D worlds work. I see it much more as the game is pretty open and does not preclude it as an option. I think the specific mechanics are the things called out by the game. Even in 4e. 4e just has more open ended mechanics like their version of the arcana skill. Because I believe we are talking about D&D and D&D is open to a lot of options that involve a lot of consideration. Again I am not advocating that one way is best. I legitimately feel there are multiple fun valid different ways to approach this stuff in the game. I have not gotten the same impression of Eberron stuff that you have. Eberron clerics seem to be a magical spellcasting tradition that taps divine power. I don't read it as belief powering clerics. From the 3.5[URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/28474/Eberron-Campaign-Setting-3e?affiliate_id=17596'] Eberron Campaign Setting[/URL] book pages 34-35 on clerics as a class. "Other clerics across Eberron serve no church and claim no allegiance to any deity. They recognize the power of the deities, but not their authority over mortal life. They hold principles of alignment or other abstract ideals higher than the deities who claim these ideals in their portfolios, and [B]they draw divine power from the pervasive spiritual force in the world[/B] instead of channeling it through deities. These clerics are usually outcasts and loners, but the reality of their power is impossible to deny, and it lends credence to their unorthodox theology." I don't take that as belief powering divine magic here, rather just not getting power from a god. I don't expect Eberron non-clerics to pray and get cleric equivalent magical effects. Do you know of examples where people with straight up faith do stuff without say the trained spellcasting tradition of clerics or a specific feat? Clerics can clearly believe most anything and still do cleric stuff, but that seems more consistent with the class and not the belief being the operating factor. Also there is the whole discussion about corrupt clerics keeping their powers on pages 35-36. "A cleric who violates the tenets of her church or deity might risk punishment at the hands of the church (though not necessarily, particularly in regions where the church is very corrupt), but risks no loss of spells or class features and need not atone. This rule supersedes the information under Ex-Clerics on page 33 of the Player’s Handbook." This seems to suggest that clerics who don't believe but are putting on a mummery of faith would still cast clerical magic. I do like that [URL='https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/51636/Faiths-of-Eberron-35?affiliate_id=17596']Faiths of Eberron[/URL] says up front that "This book presents religious information through the eyes of believers, often stating as fact events that more properly belong in myth or legend." I have not read a ton of Eberron. I have skimmed a bunch and like a lot of it, and played in the setting and adopted a bunch of elements into my homebrew setting, but most of my knowledge is high vantage point stuff. The stuff I have read though gives me a different sense than you seem to have on belief and magical effects in the system. I am open to seeing specifics that point a different direction though if you can point them out. [/QUOTE]
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What's the DC for a fighter to heal their ally with a prayer?
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