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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Voadam" data-source="post: 8758471" data-attributes="member: 2209">I agree.Whether they are typed magic or untyped magic I don't think really matters one way or the other here though. They are magic that require specific prerequisites and not everybody can do.4e DMG page 42 for "actions the rules don't cover" is sort of begging the question here.Page 42: "Cast the Action as a Check: If a character tries an action that might fail, use a check to resolve it."The instruction that if you think it is possible but they might fail use a check does not tell us to use a check for something that cannot happen.Whether people can carry out activities that are essentially ritual magic without meeting the requirements of ritual magic (ritual caster feat or expending one shot ritual scroll and specific level, check, and component requirements of the ritual) is more a world question about magic in the world and how a PC can access it.If they worked and looked like rituals that did magic, sure, observing characters in the world would likely think of them as ritual magic.I wouldn't say everything in 4e is doing magicky stuff. The 4e arcana skill can explicitly be used to manipulate magic. Other skills do not explicitly say they can be used to manipulate magic on their own.A prayer that does magical effects is doing magicky stuff. If a prayer on its own can not do magical effects it is not doing magicky stuff, it is just a prayer.5e has a different baseline for magic. 5e arcana skill does not explicitly allow you to manipulate magic.3e knowledge arcana and spellcraft skills did not explicitly allow magical effects on their own.AD&D had a few divine intervention mechanics and narrative elements spelled out. Some settings had specific supernatural rules anyone can tap as well (Ravenloft with curses and dark powers checks).I don't recall any relevant examples from Basic.</blockquote>

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