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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8763725" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Depends. If the player just says "I pray" then probably between a 15 and 20. If they say "Pelor! Cast your light upon this darkness, spare my friend, and if you do, then I shall dedicate myself and my firstborn child to your service" then probably no check to get Pelor's attention, and we are in a role-playing scene where you get to interact with Pelor's avatar or herald. Uh huh, but reading anatomy and physiology texts, and using them as references would allow you to make a pretty darn good diagram of the human body right? And, let's go through some of that list. Inherent Talent? Not a factor. You don't need inherent talent to become a wizard. Vows to Supernatural entities? Not a factor. Completely irrelevant to being a wizard.Pacts enforcing servitude? Not a factor, you seem to have Wizard mixed up with Warlock. They aren't the same.Ties to Empyrial (divine?) power sources? Not a factor. Wizard magic does not rely on the Gods or Divine forces. (Seriously, you know what a wizard is, right?) Arcane Practice? Why is that not covered by proficiency in Arcana? They would have practiced the Arcane to get that prof.Mental Discipline? How would this even be represented? What requirement even is this? Sure, they just did an hour long, intensive ritual. That requires mental discipline, and they did it, so they have it. This isn't measured in any fashion, so it can't be a requirement. Which leaves "the creation of tools to facilitate the actual casting of magic." Which is interesting, because you know what the wizard did? They bought their tools off the shelf. They don't make their own orbs or wands. They purchase them. Trivially. So why can't this fighter have done the same? Heck, HOUR LONG RITUAL implies to me that they were using arcane tools, chalk, incense, the spell components, there is no reason to assume this is any different between them. So....Yeah, Arcana doesn't represent warlock pacts or sorcererous blood or divine favors. It also doesn't measure having the tools. But the other two things? It should probably cover those.Let's see, a squad is four to ten, I'll take the average and say Seven people. To train someone in Arcana would cost 250 days and 250 gold each. So, we are looking at 1,750 gold to train these soldiers. At 2 gold per day and let's say seven days, you could hire one hundred and twenty-five soldiers for the same cost. "a place distant from a concentration of the enemy" is still within 150 ft, the range of fireball. Yeah, you'd need to have a ritual caster chain casting silence if you go within 150 ft of an enemy camp, to cast for an hour. Better hope that seven magical rituals create zero light that could be seen to let them know what is up. I'll admit, cheaper than a single rogue with a wand of fireballs, (about three times cheaper) but THAT rogue is able to stay on the move and hit within moments, not an hour of staggered casting from a single location. So, possible, not something a party would ever do, and not exactly easy. I don't see the problem.</blockquote>

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