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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6547456" data-attributes="member: 5834">No. You just proved what I said. Players can decide not to play. You just stated exactly how it works at my table. When a DM runs a game a player doesn't like, they leave. Difference is we are so tight a group that we don't allow a single DM to decide everything and we like everyone to play. So we talk it out and come to a consensus. That often means no one decides the rules, so we end up using the rules as provided save for the extreme cheese. Problem was that the magic item system in previous editions along with all the stackable bonuses and the like made for a very cheesy, hard to run game. You ever design high level NPCs using the rules in Pathfinder? I've designed a group of eight fully fleshed out NPCs, all 18th level plus. I've done this more than once in that system. What a pain in the behind with all the magic items needed to make the encounter challenging.We try to keep all our campaigns in connected world with the same rules so that a character in one campaign can run with a character in another campaign, making rules consistency important.No. Our experiences don't differ. Group preferences may differ. But you are quite correct, DMs that want to have everything their way usually don't run the game very long in our group. We want everyone to have fun and participate as much as possible. Coming to a consensus on the type of game we like is important and made much easier when the rules are easy to run out of the box.Here's the reality: it looks like more people felt like I felt. The magic item Christmas Tree model was extremely unpopular. I still remember trying out 4E. I liked their magic item reduction a lot. I'm sure WotC or a 3rd party will come out with some chart for those that want to buy and sell magic items a the local Magic Mart. That's not going to be core D&D, not even DMG optional D&D. It's something they worked very hard to eliminate from the game because of the annoying Magic Item Christmas Tree and Big Six from previous editions. Just like you say, DM can do what they want in their game. It was completely unnecessary for them to provide the charts, since the magic item mart is a small minority view.We can go back and forth with you saying, "DM can ban it" and me saying "DM can make it up." Both can work. The game designers have already decided that default is DM can make it up. Since that is my camp, I'm quite happy. You guys want a Magic Item Christmas Tree, Big Six, and Magic Marts, get them imaginations rolling.</blockquote>

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