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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ruleslawyer" data-source="post: 3371661" data-attributes="member: 1757">The precise *point* is that the efforts required are "more striking." I don't think anyone's objecting to the idea that the direct intervention of a deity or actual immortal status would be an appropriate means to allow resurrection. The idea that a reasonably-available spell that qualifies as a common character option allows it is a different bag altogether.No it doesn't. Herakles/Hercules was not raised from the dead. He never died, period. This is not an argument about the availability of deific ascension, neutralize poison, or conditions governing immortality, so this is not an appropriate example.In my understanding as a Sanskrit-proficient Hindu who has done more than his share of theology study, yes.Reincarnation qua Hindu/Vedic/Buddhist philosophy is vastly different from reincarnation via spell. It's a condition of being, not something a mortal can do to another mortal. And memories are *not* retained, ever. A reincarnated life is a new life, not a reset button.Not when you rephrase the issue that way, maybe. The question is not whether there is a mythic precedent for "heroes and lives cycling back from the dead" (and I would argue that's not quite correct either, since no mortal escapes death's clutches in *any* of the examples you give; the story of Orpheus and Eurydice is usually taken as an example of how mortal impetuousness and frailty prevent us from cheating death), but whether returning from the dead should be available for mortals as a common, hardwired-into-the-campaign option.By gods and for gods, yes. For mortals?The point that I would make is a different one. In myth, legend, and much fantasy literature, death is an insurmountable barrier for mortals; it's one of the essential elements to making heroic deeds heroic. Gilgamesh battles death in a struggle that's directly metaphorical for mankind's attempts to stave off mortality. Odysseus visits Hades to be reminded of the importance of living life to the fullest. Balder dies to show that even the mightiest and the most beautiful cannot escape death (and, as I said, he doesn't make it out until after the world itself is remade; even Odin, All-Father of the Universe, cannot "raise" him). Only beings of supreme power or divine immanence can either resurrect or be resurrected. Raise dead inverts that paradigm, allowing mortals to bring back mortals as a matter of routine, and it IS without precedent in mythic traditions for this precise reason.</blockquote>

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