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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6284292" data-attributes="member: 4937">4E rather openly embraces that it's modeling a game and not reality.&nbsp; That makes it much easier to produce a tight rules set.&nbsp;&nbsp; It is also intensely frustrating to those of us who wish our game to feel a little more like reality and who (among other things) would have taken 3E in that direction rather than the other.&nbsp; Sadly, Pathfinder didn't really clean up the rules enough either, so I'm stuck out on an island of my own making.&nbsp; LOL, yes.&nbsp; And also to 4E DMs.&nbsp; To pick on one such advocate, despite my frustration with what I feel is the inaccuracy of the 'hipster' language he uses to describe his game, I imagine Pemerton runs a good table.&nbsp; It's certainly proof that how you think about the game is more important than the rules.Yes.&nbsp; I detest the 4E skill challenge framework on all sorts of levels.&nbsp; One of its problems is that it forms a distinct rules subsystem that forces the players to change how they perceive and interact with the world.&nbsp;&nbsp; I'm not sure you actually have to as a DM ding the seatbelt sign and say, &quot;Attention passengers.&nbsp; We are now entering a complexity 2 skill challenge.&nbsp; Please return your seats to an upright position and prepare your minds for performing a challenge.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp; But I'm sure it helps.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6284292, member: 4937"] 4E rather openly embraces that it's modeling a game and not reality. That makes it much easier to produce a tight rules set. It is also intensely frustrating to those of us who wish our game to feel a little more like reality and who (among other things) would have taken 3E in that direction rather than the other. Sadly, Pathfinder didn't really clean up the rules enough either, so I'm stuck out on an island of my own making. LOL, yes. And also to 4E DMs. To pick on one such advocate, despite my frustration with what I feel is the inaccuracy of the 'hipster' language he uses to describe his game, I imagine Pemerton runs a good table. It's certainly proof that how you think about the game is more important than the rules. Yes. I detest the 4E skill challenge framework on all sorts of levels. One of its problems is that it forms a distinct rules subsystem that forces the players to change how they perceive and interact with the world. I'm not sure you actually have to as a DM ding the seatbelt sign and say, "Attention passengers. We are now entering a complexity 2 skill challenge. Please return your seats to an upright position and prepare your minds for performing a challenge." But I'm sure it helps. [/QUOTE]

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