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<blockquote data-quote="Mad Hatter" data-source="post: 1861091" data-attributes="member: 23731">I think this is an overly simplistic view of Paul/Muad'Dib, Alia, and Leto II/Ghanima mythos.&nbsp; These people will tell you that they are dictators.&nbsp; They tell you that they do bad, reprehensible things.&nbsp; Muad'Dib and Alia began the worship, they began the refinement of the merging of state and church, whose entire mythos and coming were orchestrated by the Bene Gesserit.&nbsp; They halted the very wheels of their universe by threatening spice.&nbsp; However, you also fail to consider their enemies: the Harknonnen, the Padishah Emperor/House Corrino, the Bene Gesserit, the Tlielaxu, and CHOAM.Muad'Dib especially empowered the Fremen, and if you'll notice the Jihad was inevitable even if Muad'DIb had tried to stop it.&nbsp; He says as much in Dune Messiah.&nbsp; Even Leto II recognized the horror of what he did.&nbsp; He willingly created the person who would kill him through his genetics program (which was far more sophisticated than the Bene Gesserit could even hope).&nbsp; And Atreides genes stayed in the population by his doing for the expressed hope that never again could a kiwsatz haderach or an Abomination or a God Emperor could use prescience to rule.&nbsp; As long as the genes are there, humanity will always have the chance of overthrowing whatever oppresses them.&nbsp; I think that you have glossed over the Golden Path entirely.&nbsp; Each of these dictators taught a very harsh, hard lesson to humanity because they allowed themselves to be sheep.&nbsp; Never be oppressed.&nbsp; During much of Leto's reign and after, the common people begin machinations to free themselves, not just the wealthy powerful.&nbsp; Herbert makes sure that each and every institute set up in the beginning of the book falls in the end especially after God Emperor.&nbsp; These lessons taught by Leto, by Muad'Dib, and by Alia forced humanity to spread.&nbsp; Elsewise you'd have Feyd-Rautha ruling, or the Spacing Guild, or the Bene Gesserit, or even House Corrino (who would probably have been destroyed by the Harkonnens without Muad'Dib's influence). Leto II's reign was the longest and most stabilized reign by far (3500 yrs):&nbsp; And in that time there were few wars, many plots, but few out and out wars.&nbsp; Muad'Dib only ruled for around 12 years, and Alia for 9 years.&nbsp; And Paul returned to his good guy status in Children of Dune as the Preacher of Arrakeen:&nbsp;In my opinion, the Dune series is a great philosophical work.&nbsp; You just gotta dig deep.&nbsp;&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />&nbsp; If we want to keep this debate going, maybe we should form a new thread and not hijack this one?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Mad Hatter, post: 1861091, member: 23731"] I think this is an overly simplistic view of Paul/Muad'Dib, Alia, and Leto II/Ghanima mythos. These people will tell you that they are dictators. They tell you that they do bad, reprehensible things. Muad'Dib and Alia began the worship, they began the refinement of the merging of state and church, whose entire mythos and coming were orchestrated by the Bene Gesserit. They halted the very wheels of their universe by threatening spice. However, you also fail to consider their enemies: the Harknonnen, the Padishah Emperor/House Corrino, the Bene Gesserit, the Tlielaxu, and CHOAM. Muad'Dib especially empowered the Fremen, and if you'll notice the Jihad was inevitable even if Muad'DIb had tried to stop it. He says as much in Dune Messiah. Even Leto II recognized the horror of what he did. He willingly created the person who would kill him through his genetics program (which was far more sophisticated than the Bene Gesserit could even hope). And Atreides genes stayed in the population by his doing for the expressed hope that never again could a kiwsatz haderach or an Abomination or a God Emperor could use prescience to rule. As long as the genes are there, humanity will always have the chance of overthrowing whatever oppresses them. I think that you have glossed over the Golden Path entirely. Each of these dictators taught a very harsh, hard lesson to humanity because they allowed themselves to be sheep. Never be oppressed. During much of Leto's reign and after, the common people begin machinations to free themselves, not just the wealthy powerful. Herbert makes sure that each and every institute set up in the beginning of the book falls in the end especially after God Emperor. These lessons taught by Leto, by Muad'Dib, and by Alia forced humanity to spread. Elsewise you'd have Feyd-Rautha ruling, or the Spacing Guild, or the Bene Gesserit, or even House Corrino (who would probably have been destroyed by the Harkonnens without Muad'Dib's influence). Leto II's reign was the longest and most stabilized reign by far (3500 yrs): And in that time there were few wars, many plots, but few out and out wars. Muad'Dib only ruled for around 12 years, and Alia for 9 years. And Paul returned to his good guy status in Children of Dune as the Preacher of Arrakeen: In my opinion, the Dune series is a great philosophical work. You just gotta dig deep. :p If we want to keep this debate going, maybe we should form a new thread and not hijack this one? [/QUOTE]

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