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<blockquote data-quote="ZombieRoboNinja" data-source="post: 4031190" data-attributes="member: 54843">I think &quot;WoW influence&quot; has been a popular criticism of 4e for a bunch of reasons. Some of them are rhetorical (WoW is the Britney Spears of games ATM, so popular that all the &quot;cool kids&quot; hate it), but others have at least some basis in real factors of 4e.The first, and most common on ENWorld, is based on game mechanics. WoW is (IMO) basically filling the same rhetorical role here that Diablo did when 3e came out: it is the current paragon of &quot;bad gamist&quot; design, where the entire system is centered around making combat &quot;simple and fun&quot; to the point that storytelling and other considerations are sacrificed.In evaluating this argument, I think it's less helpful to banter about where the term &quot;tank&quot; originated than it is to step back a little and evaluate the big question. Did it turn out to be a bad thing that 3e &quot;stole&quot; concepts like feats and skill from Diablo? I'd certainly argue that in hindsight, those systems were a big step forward, and actually ENABLED a lot more intricate roleplaying and character development. I'm betting a lot of the &quot;WoW-gamist&quot; elements of 4e will prove the same. &quot;Elite monsters&quot; is a prime example: this allows 4e fights to be a lot more interesting, since the DM can &quot;mix it up&quot; by having one encounter with a dozen goblin minions, and then a solo encounter with a dragon. The second argument is the aesthetic one. We've already seen pictures in this thread of Draenei. To me, the specific connection between a couple given races is less compelling than the overall aesthetic similarities between the 4e art style and WoW's style. This is probably another way of stating the &quot;4e looks anime&quot; criticism, which is another flamebait topic on these boards, but I think it is worth looking at. I think it's pretty undeniable that &quot;anime/manga&quot; style has influenced 3e and 4e art, just as it has heavily influenced American comics and cartoons. The new female dwarves are a good example: they made them attractive by making the eyes extra-large, which is a decidedly &quot;manga&quot; aesthetic. But personally, if I had to choose between the 3e/4e art style and the 2e &quot;classic cartoon&quot; style, I'd go with the new stuff any day. This is pretty much entirely a matter of personal preference, though.Overall, I'm not sure why some people are so incensed that D&amp;D might be taking a little inspiration from other popular elements of its genre.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ZombieRoboNinja, post: 4031190, member: 54843"] I think "WoW influence" has been a popular criticism of 4e for a bunch of reasons. Some of them are rhetorical (WoW is the Britney Spears of games ATM, so popular that all the "cool kids" hate it), but others have at least some basis in real factors of 4e. The first, and most common on ENWorld, is based on game mechanics. WoW is (IMO) basically filling the same rhetorical role here that Diablo did when 3e came out: it is the current paragon of "bad gamist" design, where the entire system is centered around making combat "simple and fun" to the point that storytelling and other considerations are sacrificed. In evaluating this argument, I think it's less helpful to banter about where the term "tank" originated than it is to step back a little and evaluate the big question. Did it turn out to be a bad thing that 3e "stole" concepts like feats and skill from Diablo? I'd certainly argue that in hindsight, those systems were a big step forward, and actually ENABLED a lot more intricate roleplaying and character development. I'm betting a lot of the "WoW-gamist" elements of 4e will prove the same. "Elite monsters" is a prime example: this allows 4e fights to be a lot more interesting, since the DM can "mix it up" by having one encounter with a dozen goblin minions, and then a solo encounter with a dragon. The second argument is the aesthetic one. We've already seen pictures in this thread of Draenei. To me, the specific connection between a couple given races is less compelling than the overall aesthetic similarities between the 4e art style and WoW's style. This is probably another way of stating the "4e looks anime" criticism, which is another flamebait topic on these boards, but I think it is worth looking at. I think it's pretty undeniable that "anime/manga" style has influenced 3e and 4e art, just as it has heavily influenced American comics and cartoons. The new female dwarves are a good example: they made them attractive by making the eyes extra-large, which is a decidedly "manga" aesthetic. But personally, if I had to choose between the 3e/4e art style and the 2e "classic cartoon" style, I'd go with the new stuff any day. This is pretty much entirely a matter of personal preference, though. Overall, I'm not sure why some people are so incensed that D&D might be taking a little inspiration from other popular elements of its genre. [/QUOTE]

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