Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What's up in fantasy?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 2029058" data-attributes="member: 463"><p>OK, have to vent a little (kinda vague spoilers for His Dark Materials):</p><p></p><p>I just finished reading "The Amber Spyglass", last of the His Dark Materials trilogy. To say that the ending annoyed me would be an understatement. I now understand a lot of the criticism. In the Narnia books, when the children unquestioningly accept whatever Aslan tells them (ie unquestioning obedience to Aslan means you're a good person, unquestioning obedience to Tash means you're a bad person), this at least accords with the message of the series. But HDM is all about coming of age and _questioning_ authority, yet whereas unquestioning obedience to the Church (the baddies) is presented as bad, the children-becoming-teens _never_ question the motivations & means of the rebels (goodies), even when these are clearly detrimental to the children's own interests & seem highly morally questionable in themselves. In fact the Church 'baddies' if anything display far more guilt and moral-struggle than the rebels, with their easy certainties. I kept waiting for the children as they reached adolescence to display a little of that independence of thought the trilogy lauds. They never do. </p><p>When the Satan-figure (ie goody, here) angel tells them at the end how they have to do X, there's no alternative, even though X will condemn them to a lifetime of sadness, they accept her instructions with cowlike docility even though it seems bloody obvious that the alternatives they present are perfectly reasonable, given a little help from the angel (which they've more than earned). For someone raised on adolescent sword & sorcery heroes like Moorcock's I was left grinding my teeth in frustration. It reminded me of how unquestioning faith in religion & religious leaders was replaced in the 20th century by unquestioning faith in science & scientists, who always 'know best' - like with DDT or mad cow disease, eh.</p><p></p><p>Ho-hum. I'm an atheist and a humanist, pretty much, but this just left me angry.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="S'mon, post: 2029058, member: 463"] OK, have to vent a little (kinda vague spoilers for His Dark Materials): I just finished reading "The Amber Spyglass", last of the His Dark Materials trilogy. To say that the ending annoyed me would be an understatement. I now understand a lot of the criticism. In the Narnia books, when the children unquestioningly accept whatever Aslan tells them (ie unquestioning obedience to Aslan means you're a good person, unquestioning obedience to Tash means you're a bad person), this at least accords with the message of the series. But HDM is all about coming of age and _questioning_ authority, yet whereas unquestioning obedience to the Church (the baddies) is presented as bad, the children-becoming-teens _never_ question the motivations & means of the rebels (goodies), even when these are clearly detrimental to the children's own interests & seem highly morally questionable in themselves. In fact the Church 'baddies' if anything display far more guilt and moral-struggle than the rebels, with their easy certainties. I kept waiting for the children as they reached adolescence to display a little of that independence of thought the trilogy lauds. They never do. When the Satan-figure (ie goody, here) angel tells them at the end how they have to do X, there's no alternative, even though X will condemn them to a lifetime of sadness, they accept her instructions with cowlike docility even though it seems bloody obvious that the alternatives they present are perfectly reasonable, given a little help from the angel (which they've more than earned). For someone raised on adolescent sword & sorcery heroes like Moorcock's I was left grinding my teeth in frustration. It reminded me of how unquestioning faith in religion & religious leaders was replaced in the 20th century by unquestioning faith in science & scientists, who always 'know best' - like with DDT or mad cow disease, eh. Ho-hum. I'm an atheist and a humanist, pretty much, but this just left me angry. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
What's up in fantasy?
Top