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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hakkenshi" data-source="post: 285938" data-attributes="member: 5457">Hong, what I meant is that quarterstaves and spears aren't monk weapons. And that's just messed up.Also, 4d6+20 assumes that the fighter has a lawful, chaotic, holy, unholy or elemental weapon, all effects that could just as well be added to a monk's fists.If you say 2d6+20 for the fighter, he's using a greatsword and only has 4 attacks. A monk with Flurry of Blows is doing 1d20+5 (using your example) with *6* attacks. Without going into mathematical discussions, it still looks pretty good.And why the HECK does the monk have to equal the fighter at fighting??? The fighter is SUPPOSED to be the best; people would cry bloody murder if he wasn't. The point is that the monk is ALMOST as good, and he can easily have better AC, does in fact have incredibly superior mobility, SR, Dimension Door, immunity to poison, etc. etc. But the fighter needs items (or spells) to get these abilities, at least a few of which (you must admit) are rather desirable.And you would totally waste a good fighter by trying to equal the monk at grappling, THE single most underused ability.</blockquote>