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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Henry" data-source="post: 287093" data-attributes="member: 158">Tales of high-level monks, while useful, aren't germane to the original intent of the thread, which was comparing lower to mid-level monks to other classes. (Although how someone got a Fighter1/Forsaker 4 is amazing to me! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f631.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":eek:" title="Eek!    :eek:"  data-smilie="9"data-shortname=":eek:" />)Ridley's Cohort:Furthermore, I am sorry that you think the character sucks. Apparently every single point I made in the post was glossed over by "this character is worthless." In what way is he worthless?? He is the EQUAL of a 1st level rogue in terms of versatility on a battlefield, and has more defensive skills, to boot.1st level rogue, 25 point buy.S--10D--15C--12I--14W--8CH--13AC 14 (leather armor)Saves:fort +1refl +4will -1sneak attack +1d6Skills:tumble +6among othersThis character cannot use evasion, cannot stun opponents, cannot use the healing skill effectively, has less hit points than the monk, and has an AC that cannot stack with an armor bonus. He has ONE competent save - one daze cantrip will affect him on average. They can tumble very well - but so can the monk. Plus, he doesn't hit as often, nor does he do the average damage of a monk (except on a sneak attack, where exceeds the monk's damage). He has other skills, sure - but so does the monk. In fact, his skills make up for what the monk can do, that he cannot.How does this make a monk "useless." I would prefer a cogent reasoning (as I gave above), than just a "he sucks" post. BTW, in regards to the sharing of capabilites among party members (re: a mage casting mage armor on him): this kind of thing is EXPECTED in a normal party. AS I SAID, the monk ain't gettin' a freebie. He is putting his mobile little butt on the line doing things that the mage cannot and should not do. Similarly, the monk (and the fighter) help the rogue get his sneak attacks in - very rarely in my experience does a rogue sneak attack unaided.There is no need for any class to be superior - just equivalent. If you are going to rate a class's effectiveness by the x-point-xx damage they do in a round, you are setting a poor standard. It's just not supportable to make a claim that monks of low level are categorically worthless, as I demonstrated above.BTW, who would I choose as a 5th party wheel? Any class at all - every one of the 11 base classes has something to recommend it. If you wish to choose solely on damage dealing, or on massive skill points, then that's your decision. But there is plenty to recommend a monk of any level as a viable party member, as well as just being fun to play.</blockquote>

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