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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gizzard" data-source="post: 287835" data-attributes="member: 527">This is just starting to become a problem now at my level (5th) so I understand what you are saying.  But what happens when the Barbarian gets Dominated?  He comes over and kicks the Monks butt!  It doesn't matter that I could have saved against that spell, every intelligent monster knows not to cast on the Monk.  Not that it matters either way; if all saves were equal would anyone pick the Monk to Dominate?  No, because you would rather control any of other party members instead.   OK, everyone is, as far as I can tell, talking about some high-level Monks.  At 5th, I cannot get across the battlefield any faster than the Barbarian (40').  One more level and then I'll be able to do something no one else can do - move 50'.  But its been a long slog to that point. I think Bards rock.  They are actually decent at a bunch of different stuff.  At first and second levels, the Bard seemed iffy; but now she is starting to  rack up both Clerical and Arcane spells; she's not as good as a specialist at anything, but she is a generalist in almost everything.  She gives a constant flow of contribution to the party: a Song to help during combat, a couple shots with the Short Bow, maybe a Magic Missile or a Daze and then some Cure Lights afterwards.  I like Bards.The Monk, on the other hand, is not as good as a specialist in his main area (fighting) and he's not got much skill as a generalist.  ("Can you cast Arcane spells?  No?  How about Divine?  No?  Then you must be able to Disarm this Trap.  No?!  What is it that you do then?  You "Balance"?  You "Deflect Arrows"?  Is that supposed to help the party in some way???")  The Bard shows how a good generalist can be made in 3E and points up how shallow the Monks abilities as a "jack-of-all trades" are. I dont see the weakness.  You talk about stunning, but I dont think you can count on that with Fort+10 and AC 23.  You talk about movement, but the Fighter has Boots of Speed; I dont think you are going to hit & run him as much as you think.  And hiding and sneaking (which means no great movement rate),well, I think that Fighter can afford to take a couple good hits from the Monk - whereas the Monk cannot say the same thing.Of course, 10th level Monks arent my specialty.  But I will tell you who owns who between a 5th level Fighter and a 5th level Monk.  ;-)Anyway, do you think you can post a Monk thats significantly better than Hakkenshi's?  I'd be curious to see it; I thought Hakkenshi hit the high points even if he didnt tune as thoroughly as Wolfen Priest.</blockquote>

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