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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guilt Puppy" data-source="post: 299391" data-attributes="member: 6521">Replying to the topic of the thread (as opposed to the eight pages of circular arguments), in my experience monks are every bit as effective and useful as any other class, all things considered.In combat: Not as effective as the fighter-types. Monks are not fighter types. What they do have, however, is enough protection (saving throws, healing, adequate hit die, et cetera) to survive on the front lines while still doing something. Can't say the same for rogues, who have to be careful and try to get in a few sneak attacks, or arcane casters, who just have to fly the hell out of there.For sneaking/stealth: Not as effective as rogues. Again, they're not supposed to be. They can, however, maintain stealth alongside the rogues, and sneak on in to places where fighters, clerics, et cetera would never be able to go. And when they do run into traps and whatnot, they have evasion, and they have good saves all around. They can handle it.For exploring/adventuring: Enough class skills to move around in tough terrain. Spot and Listen aren't class skills, but they should have a high wisdom, so they'll stand a chance at those checks.And on... The point is, monks aren't a class that does one particular thing well -- rather, they're designed to be really damned versatile, and end up being at minor assets in any given situation. Further, they don't really have a weak point (as they're well-protected by their saves, and have a far lower reliance on items than any other class), so you know that whatever situation your party ends up in, the monk's always going to be able to contribute something.Of course, this is all abstract. In the game I'm running, it's about what I see. All things considered, the monk has been the party's most effective player: They've yet to run into a situation where he's really failed to contribute.In their current adventure, the party has been trying to gather information about a cult of evil monks. They've found this to be a particularly difficult task: Monks are tough bastards, their spellcasters can do little against them, it's hard to catch them by surprise... There's really not much you can do to gain the upper hand against them. What's worse, once you get into combat with them, one is always sure to escape, and there's not much you can do about it.</blockquote>

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