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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shard O'Glase" data-source="post: 303155" data-attributes="member: 1134">I don't remember which page the combo items is in the dmg, probably one of the behind the curtain sections.  I don't have the dmg here.  Personally though I don't consider it in any way an expansion on the rules.  I would actually look at attempts to keep the items to those specifically listed as a narrowing of the rules.I'm sure it is in the SRD the monks speed that is, but I think saying 80 or 100 movment was more than clear enough and in no way weakened my case.  If you think it does I think you are trying too hard to find flaws in any pro-monk argument.Partial charge with a move of 100 and spring attack can put you a very long way from the party.  Lets say he sneaks up to within 20' of the party.  presumedly he picks a location where he can hit and run a good distance in a straight line, like an intersection.  This line should probably be at some kind of angle so after the hit the run puts him out of a direct line of fire.  And also considering it is indoors would very likely either put him out of visable range(torches, darkvision etc) or out of line of sight like a pillar or corner.  He then can rehide at basically no penalty.  This wont work much, I figure two runs until the party is savy.  Time one compleate surprise, time 2 they eventually figure he left and just gave them a parting shot.  time 3 the party tries to make it look like their guard is dropped to lure him in with their readied actions.  Time 3 is where he leads them into a trap of somekind.  If you want to use all his skill points give him points in craft trapmaking.  He can also make different style attempts in try 3.  For example throw a  bunch of smokesticks, and thunderstones at the party. (maybe that's a set trap)  If anyone foolishly stumbles out on their own, especially a weak mage type he moves in for the kill.And no I don't think it is likely he can drag the mage off quietly.  But stunning blow's only pre-req seems to be unarmed damage caused.  A surprise grapple could cause damage, and a stun.  I'd allow players to try and grapple for damage, while doing something like grabbing the opponents mouth to keep them quiet.  I'd put big penalties on the sneak checks, but I think it could be done.  It seems to be a very apprpriate action considering what we see in movies and read in books.  And if stunned druing the grapple attempt how much noise will the mage make.  Now obviosuly the person targeted couldn't be in the sight if other members, but the rear guard(cleric?) could be targetd with less chance of success.  If you could get the party to follow the monk with his high movement, and knowledge of the terain he likely could loop around the party and come in on whoever is trailing behind and this might actually be the wiz/sor types who want to hang in the back.I don't feel the monk is a bit too min-maxed.  He is a  combat oriented monk sure, but if you throw one of these non combat monks at the party with a 12 str you don't prove that monks suck at fighting.  All you prove is a melle combabtant with a 12 str sucks at fighting.  Stats are absurdly important for any class.  If you ant a monk to hang in a mellee fight he has to have a good str, otherwise he is just dead weight.  If you are looking for other things in a monk go ahead and put a 12 in str.  Furthermore I'd say this monk was very un-min/maxed in some areas, like stats.  One bad stat the rest were 12,14,14,14,15 at the start.  All very good stats though not the virtually needed 18's of 2nd edition fame.  Which is why for the monk I don't think multistat dependency is such a problem, a 14 is a  good stat, 12s are decent.  If you want to focus in something though like unarmed combat you should boost the appropriate stat.And by the way I don't necessarily think the monk shouldn't be changed.  I just don't think he sucks.  I hate the design concept of a very rigid special ability progression, incredibly booring.  After playing one monk it almost feels like you've seen them all.  Sure feats and skills can be different, but gods there are so many things the same it is booring as heck.</blockquote>

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