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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LokiDR" data-source="post: 309754" data-attributes="member: 6239">Wizards who do not leave combat, by fly or other means, die.  You mobility sees to that.  I will agree that monks are the king of high land speed.  How much does that help you?  It could be nice, but are your combats that large?  I have never worried about having more mobility, and I tend to play halflings and armored clerics.  I don't see you mobility as that useful.  Can you think of specific encounters where it helped you?  Point in case, you still can't move to hit targets 160' up.decent, acceptable, alright, some.  These are the words you used to describe the monks abilities.  Monks have the largest number of abilities in the game.  Why, then, do they still come out as mediocre?  Monk should be very cool with that number of abilites, but all of my experiences are that they are bouncing buffoons untill they get higher level abilities like SR and d20 damage.  It seems most of the abilities are aimed at being "flavor" that just doesn't come up on a regular basis.So can a ranger.  Rangers can use bows.  There are lots of good feats for bows.  I don't mean the monk can't do it.  I mean other classes get a lot more out of it.Ok, this I will give you.  The skill points are a nice boost, but 4 vs 2 isn't that amazing.  Ranger gets as many skill points as monk, and have an exclusive skill to choose from.  Monk are again, decent but not that well off.I had thought the high level question died long ago.  Well, it is a long thread.  By the time you hit the "nice" abilites, you had to suffer through a lot.  I would have gotten sick of it before that.Everything the monk class does, some one does better, except mobility and not dying.  Monks really are annoying clowns, bouncing around and not doing terribly much.  Every thing they do is decent.  So you are in the backup for half the party??  What the heck is that about?  If this game is supposed to be fun, shouldn't you be the best at SOMETHING that the party uses regularly?As for bards, I may just have to start a thread on those too.  I have fealing the bard likers will win though.</blockquote>

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